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Old 07-30-2014, 06:51 AM   #16
rtwpaul
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just just posted on my RR so incase you don't get back there this is what i posted for you




kevin, just read your indian build, love it, as a motorcycle builder i know you are going to have a 'fun time' with that, Dale at the motorcycle museum in N.C. is also a good source if you haven't spoken to him already, super nice guy and a cannonball entry a few years back and a wealth of information and good unknown resources



and yes that is another tank on the back of the bike as he was only getting 25 to a gallon IIRC

so he might know a few tricks that others don't as he is the restorer and the curator...same era excelsiors

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Old 07-30-2014, 08:25 AM   #17
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Thanks Paul. I haven't talked to Dale yet but I'm going to try to make it down there this fall, since I will be working in NC for a few weeks. They had a bike running at Wauseon this year, in those videos I posted earlier. Here's a pic:





Be careful out there on the other side of the world. You're doing a great job on the posts.

Kevin

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1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 07-30-2014, 07:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twotaildog View Post
This project reminds me of years ago when I decided that I wanted to have my own airplane. I went to the local general aviation airport and they told me to go home and start flushing hundred dollar bills down the toilet. They said when I got used to that, and it didn't bother me anymore, come on back, I was ready to have an airplane.

Kevin
Kevin,

This quote cracked me up. It literally embodies every project that I take on. If I get your permission this is going into my signature line!
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Old 07-30-2014, 07:55 PM   #19
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Kevin,

This quote cracked me up. It literally embodies every project that I take on. If I get your permission this is going into my signature line!
I know. If it wasn't so true it would be even funnier.
Gosh, I don't think I've ever been sig-lined before. Of course you can.

Kevin

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1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:44 PM   #20
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Bloody awesome! Great story.......I can't believe you got away with sneaking this away from me and out of the country.

I will be watching this thread closely.
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Old 07-31-2014, 06:17 AM   #21
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Bloody awesome! Great story.......I can't believe you got away with sneaking this away from me and out of the country.
Thanks anonny. Did you know that they used to assemble some of the Indian motocycles in Canada? Apparently they took parts that were made in Springfield, Mass, USA, and shipped them north of the border where they were assembled.




I've been working on the wheels, I want to be able to roll it into my trailer and take it to the Davenport, IA meet. I'll post some pictures next week. Right now I'm off to Fargo to help my daughter move.


Kevin

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1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 07-31-2014, 07:03 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twotaildog View Post
This project reminds me of years ago when I decided that I wanted to have my own airplane. I went to the local general aviation airport and they told me to go home and start flushing hundred dollar bills down the toilet. They said when I got used to that, and it didn't bother me anymore, come on back, I was ready to have an airplane.


Kevin

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Reminds me of what they say about large boats...."Just a big hole in the water that you throw money into"


Look forward to seeing it at Davenport!
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:00 AM   #23
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This appears very ambitious.I'm not sure I could handle the learning curve here...best of luck and looking forward to more photo's of your progress.

I admit I lack the talent to do justice to a project of this magnitude.
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Old 08-05-2014, 05:23 PM   #24
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This appears very ambitious.I'm not sure I could handle the learning curve here...best of luck and looking forward to more photo's of your progress. ...
Agreed; it's an aggressive schedule. Maybe the learning will help my mind from going feeble.

Thanks - we can all use a little luck. I'll post some more pictures soon, I'm in an airport on my way home now.

Kevin

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1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:47 AM   #25
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Front Wheel Disassembly

I want to get two wheels put together so I can roll the bike into my trailer to take it to Davenport with me for Labor Day weekend. The first step is to get the old wheels off, take them apart, and see what parts I'm going to need. The tires were so fossilized that I couldn't even get the front wheel off because the tire wouldn't clear the forks. Out came the tin snips. It's funny, I felt a little sad and queasy taking the snips to those tires that are probably older than me (and I'm pretty old). It had to be done though.









The spokes on the front wheel are actually pretty good, other than some surface rust, and there's only one spoke missing:






The bearing cups in the hub have some pits. They would work for a while, but not from coast to coast:






The hollow axle is in good shape. It has caged bearings, which look to be in pretty good shape. One of the bearing cones is in really good shape, the other one has some pitting:






Here's the good cone after cleaning:






And here's the pitted one. It looks worse in the picture than in real life:






The center axle is fubar. Someone has re-tapped the threads, which I believe should be 3/8 - 24, with coarse threads:







The rim itself looks pretty rusty, but the wastage isn't that bad and I think it can be saved:






So I've contacted a couple of vendors about front wheel hub bearing cups, bearing cones, and a center axle, and I'm waiting to hear back from them. I know that I can get new ball bearings. I've also ordered material to make a center axle if I need to.

These are my thoughts on the original front wheel; If I can't get new cups and cones, I'll probably clean the old ones up, grease them up good, and assemble them. I'll de-rust the rim, replace the missing spoke, adjust the spokes, put a tire on it, and call it good. It will be the spare wheel for the Cannonball, and it will be my normal original wheel after the Cannonball. The thing is, the Cannonball goes through some high traffic areas, which is a condition that bikes were not designed for in 1916. So you need a wheel with front brake, and one can be installed without modifying the fork or the rest of the bike in any way. Here is a link: http://occhiolungo.wordpress.com/201...an-early-bike/

If anyone has any Indian front wheel cups or cones, I would be interested. I'm also looking for a drum brake wheel from a ~1970's dirt bike, with a 21 inch aluminum rim. It has to be less than 3 inches wide at the axle, anything narrower than that would work, I can make spacers. I also discovered that I don't have the rear engine mount plates, so if anyone has a line on a set of those, let me know. I don't know how I didn't notice that before.


Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 08-08-2014, 05:03 AM   #26
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Front Wheel Parts

Quick update on the front wheel - Walker Machine says they have the front wheel hub ball cups in stock, so I ordered a set. They said they can make me a set of cones too, but it will take a couple of months or so. So, when the new cups come in I'll put the front wheel together with them, new balls, and the old cones. I'll have to make a new center axle myself. It will be easy to change out the cones after the AMCA Davenport meet. Also, I was able to salvage two original Indian spokes from one of the rear wheels, and they are an identical match for the spokes on the front wheel, so I will be able to replace the missing spoke on my front wheel with one of them. When it's all done the front wheel will have new guts, but still be crusty on the outside.

Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 08-08-2014, 06:10 AM   #27
Twotaildog OP
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Old Wheel Terminology

I've learned that the wheels on these old motorcycles are built more like a modern bicycle wheel than like a modern motorcycle wheel. If you're not familiar with bicycle wheels, the names of the parts might seem strange. For example, the bearing races that are pressed into the hub are called cups:






And the other bearing races are called the cones, and they have a dust shield around them:






The wheels have two axles, a hollow axle and a center axle. This is the hollow axle:






The hollow axle is threaded on both ends. Note that the threads are shorter on one end than the other. The short threads are the stationary end, because the cone on that end threads tight against the shoulder. The long threads are the adjustable end, because the cone on that end is used to adjust the bearing clearances:








This is the center axle:






The balls can either be caged or loose. Here are some examples of both:






The hollow axle goes through the hub:






Then the balls go in:






Then the cones go on:






Then the center axle goes in, to hold the wheel to the forks:




The front wheels don't have a bushing between the center axle and the hollow axle (none is listed in the parts list) so it appears that it's just the O.D. of the center axle that centers it in the I.D. of the hollow axle. On the rear wheel, which I will post shortly, there is a bushing to center the center axle in the hollow axle.



Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...

Twotaildog screwed with this post 08-08-2014 at 06:39 AM
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:13 AM   #28
Twotaildog OP
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Rear Wheel Disassembly (1)

The rear wheel came off without cutting the tire - until after. It had an oversized inner tube folded up inside of it, visible before the tire was even removed from the rim:






Some of the lettering was still visible on the rear tire, it was a Goodyear, size 28 x 3:






In this next picture you can see the skip-tooth bicycle sprocket that someone had fitted to it. The little part with the red paint on it is the bushing I mentioned earlier, that centers the center axle in the hollow axle. It also acts as a spacer between the ends of the wheel assembly and the swingarm. The little fishtail piece is the axle adjuster, you can see the one original rear axle nut that I have, the 7/16" balls, and the end of the stationary cone:






Next is a picture of the brake side (right hand side) of the wheel. You can see the adjusting cone. On the rear wheel the adjusting cone is different than the stationary cone, the adjusting cone has a hex on it and the stationary cone does not. After looking things over I think the wheel was assembled wrong. It looks to me like the stationary cone should be on the right side, shouldered against the brake hub, and the adjusting cone should be on the left side where it is accessible without removing the brake hub. If anyone knows, please comment. Here's the picture:






This is the reproduction brake hub that I got from Ziggy Kapuscinski:






As you can see in this picture, the hollow axle was broken in two pieces:






Probably because of the broken hollow axle, one of the bushings is severely worn where it inserts into the hollow axle:






The bearing cups look a bit rough, but we'll see what they look like after I clean them up:







Stay tuned - more to come.

Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:19 AM   #29
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Rear Wheel (2)

Once the rear wheel hub cups were cleaned up, you could see some pits, as I expected.








After I soaked it in Evaporust, and preserved it with Strongarm, the adjusting cone looked pretty good:






The stationary cone was pitted, and it was frozen to the broken hollow axle:






The bushings cleaned up pretty well in the Evaporust:






I was able to get the sprocket nut off. It's a little beat up, but useable:






Some of the spokes had been replaced with bailing wire secured with a little square of tin on the inside of the rim. Notice the fossilized bugs in the second picture. I wonder if they could extract some DNA and start a Jurassic Park:








And some of the spokes had been replaced with #9 wire twisted together:






The rim itself looks like it can be saved:






Next, I'll post some pictures of the spare wheel.

Kevin

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__________________
1916 Indian Powerplus - future Cannonball prospect
1964 Triumph TR6 - 50 year ISDT Tribute
1969 BMW R60US
KTM 640 ADV - Guzzi Centauro - Husky TE510 - other stuff
...sweet dreams and fine machines in pieces on the ground...
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:44 AM   #30
yokesman
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I was at walmart n saw a 28inch tube(?), guess I either have been out of bicycles too long or motorcycle not long enough. their 26inch tube folded in my 26 inch tire also,guess they have decided it was just more economical to just restamp n package the 28's.
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