‘80 Guzzi Le Mans, trying not to butcher it..

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by PeterKaa, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. PeterKaa

    PeterKaa Been here awhile

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    Originally I had my eyes on a loop frame as a ‘round town cruiser, local bike-meets and 2-up Sundays along the coast and definitely needed something with a more relaxed riding position.

    Couldn’t find the loop that I wanted and then started looking for a T3 or a 1000sp.

    Went and looked at/tried a SP and then the Le Mans on a cold and rainy November night.
    After that - there was no question I wanted the fast one :-D

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    A few bad pictures from when I picked it up.

    It has an aftermarket seat, Marzocchi Strada shocks, a fork brace, oil-pan extension, dyna ignition, stainless Mistral system, Gilardoni big bore barrels (949ccm), glorious 40mm Dellortos and allegedly some modifications done to the rockers and crank bearing to improve lubrication.

    Anybody know what are typical mods to the bottom and rocker end might be? Have been unable to see anything inside, but I have no idea what I’m looking for.

    It’s got quite a lot of oomph and sounds fantastic overall condition is good considering it’s 38 years old and has a 120000km on the clock.

    Short term the plan is to get it MOT’ed, I need to do that before the 23rd to keep it registered.

    The list of issues:
    Rear brakemaster is phucked
    Rear light gone
    Rocker cover leaking oil on the right side
    Oil light is on until it reaches 2000RPM :-/
    Rims need paint, they look like crap
    Link and bushings for both pedals is worn and has quite a lot of play
    Center stand is worn so it tilts over too far and the rear wheel touches the ground
    Quite a lot of brackets and stuff need to be blasted and re painted

    Went and ordered a nice bunch of parts from HMB guzzi and took the weekend off, ready to get wrenching. Unfortunately the parts didn’t make it (thank you postnord - assclowns).

    So spend the weekend cleaning stuff..

    Borrowed a lathe to freshen up the flanges for the exhaust headers.
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    Before/after pics of headers and rocker covers. Ultra sonic cleaner for the rocker covers (and a stainless protector from HMB) toilet cleaner and a sponge bath for the pipes.

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    Tried to give the fork brace a niced brushed look. Anybody know this type? Mounts with and off set “thingy” on one side. Thought the more square 80s looking Tarozzi were the only game in town for these bikes.

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    Cleaned up the choke lever mount bracket.

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    New links and bush for the gear lever
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    HMB guzzi calibrated oil pressure control valve mounted, the original crude piece on the table next to it.
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    New filter and and cleaned up oilpan
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    Clean oil pan and extender, new oil pressure switch, new horn and cleaned up stator cover
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    So this is where I am now, no engine oil so I don’t know if the oil lamp thing has been cured and found that the thread for one of the right side rocker cover screws was phucked.
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    #1
    wilmar13, Deuce, joe cool and 2 others like this.
  2. LocuL

    LocuL Gnarly Infantry

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    Get moving

    Sendt fra min SM-N950F med Tapatalk
    #2
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  3. PeterKaa

    PeterKaa Been here awhile

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    Thanks!
    Ro på, se update.
    #3
  4. LocuL

    LocuL Gnarly Infantry

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    Massive fail. Roger that.

    Fin maskine.

    Sendt fra min SM-N950F med Tapatalk
    #4
  5. chris a

    chris a Been here awhile

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    Good catch...and a good move in replacing the oil pressure blow off valve but as you might have allrea
    dy guessed that it might not be the cause for the low pressure.Hopefully it is !Some people have had issues with the seal on the oil filter which can spin loose without the addition of a hose clamp.Plenty of web info on that ...Wildgoose is a good place along with this place.
    Helicoiling the stripped thread is no big deal and there could be others on their way out so a set would be a good investment.
    For the rockers , they might have replaced the bush with needle rollers and made a 0.01 gain in HP ...no idea what they did to the crank bearings and that could well be the cause of the low pressure.AFAIK the only improvments are that blow off valve you got and a bigger and less worn out pump.The standard set up worked fine anyway except the pressure valve being shoddyly made and fitted sometimes but again that was pretty exceptional.
    The stand bushes could well be worn...but it also looks like the shocks are slightly longer than the originals( they look like piggy back marzocchis from here).Helps quicken up the steering and was a really common mod back then.You could allways weld up some slippers under the feet to bring the height up a bit.
    #5
  6. Wirespokes

    Wirespokes Beemerholics Anonymous

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    The pressure sensors on these bikes are a known trouble spot. I replaced the one on my T3 because it came on intermittently. That's the next easy fix before looking at rod bearings. I guess there's always the pressure relief - but honestly, the light should go out soon as the engine is running. That it's still running probably says it's a bad oil pressure sender.

    One of my valve cover screws sheared off in the head, but thankfully the cover isn't leaking. I'll be removing the head to replace the chrome bores and when I do I'll have the machinist remove the screw. I've tried drilling it out but it won't budge - that sucker is H A R D !!!

    I like your LeMans - looks like a fun project.
    #6
  7. huub

    huub Been here awhile

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    nice find! pretty good condition mine was worse when i got it.
    please dont turn it into a fake 850 le mans, too many of those already around
    in stock form they are brilliant motorcycles, but i might be biased. this is mine...[​IMG]

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    a few remarks , the oil pressure sensor is probably broken , but dont run the bike with too little oil pressure , the camshaft runs in the engine block , so if you wear those out , a repair gets complicated.

    i would order a set of new exhaust clamps , the alloy finned ones are a lot nicer.
    also , you might want to fit a modified oil pan with a external oil filter, removing the sump to change the filter soon gets annoying
    as you can see i fitted a deeper sump with external oil filter.
    With all those plain bearings clean oil is important , i fitted a upgraded oil pump to mine , not sure if it is actually necessary
    apart from that, dont worry about the bottom end of the engine , it is virtually bullet proof.
    oh , and check the fork stabiliser for fit, usually they fit so badly , they completely ruin the front suspension.
    i tossed the one on mine


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    mine is featured in a german magazine right now , weird to see your own bike on the cover of a magazine

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    #7
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  8. PeterKaa

    PeterKaa Been here awhile

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    The old oil filter seemed to be screwed on as it should, I am curious about the hose clamp trick.
    I have google-foo'ed in vain on wild guzzi and only found other posts stating something like, "use the search function, plenty of threads on this" I can't seem to find an explanation or a picture of the trick.
    Helicoiling the stripped thread is not a biggie, but it just annoys me that I didn't notice it earlier and that it seems to be the only molested screw on the engine.
    Still bushes in the rockers, read the information from the PO again it says that the oil channels have been machined in the rockers and the crankshaft - dunno what that means.
    I have recieved a new set of stand bushes we'll see if that does the trick, on my V50 I found that the center stand itself was worn along both on the feet and on the stops where it mounts to the frame. Just takes a bit of welding and some time to fix.

    I have changed the switch too, I pretty sure it's the switch - like you said, otherwise they tend to stop running.
    I just changed the relief valve for good measure.
    Nothing like a broken screw to ruin your day, are you going with a re-plate, new nicasils or?

    Unfortunately your second picture doesn't load, but it sure looks nice in white!

    I would like to have the HMB sump extender with the external filter on it, and I might get it some day, but for now the extender on already fitted will have to do.
    I'm not too worried about running 3000-3500 kms between oil changes and 6000-6500kms between filters. It's practically an upsized Briggs & Straton engine - I'm sure it will be fine :p
    Yeah I wonder about the adjustment feature on the fork brace, I can see how it could cause some headache.

    Visually I don't plan on a lot of mods, just yet.
    I refuse to get all radical about keeping it stock, but I do appreciate the original 80 look.
    I have ordered some slightly smaller rear indicators and I am contemplating painting the wheels in a satin bronze/gold like the wheels on the early Duc' 916

    This weeks plans include a trick rear master cylinder from HMB and a test of my patience.. I imagine that the linked brakes are a pain to bleed, any tips?
    #8
  9. huub

    huub Been here awhile

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    hey, it's your bike , you dont need permission to paint it pink....

    before restoring it mine was my daily transport for a couple of years, doing a daily 250 km round trip.
    a 6000 km interval meant dropping the oil pan every 5 weeks. not my idea of fun.

    before the le mans i had a cagiva elefant for my daily 250 km round trip, maintenance on that one drove me mad!

    just take your time bleeding the brakes, it is not harder , there is just one more caliper to bleed.
    #9
  10. DiggerD

    DiggerD DougFir from SuperDuke Days

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    #10
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  11. chris a

    chris a Been here awhile

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    Linked brake can be an absolute arse to bleed...sometimes it's been a quick job , other times it can hours.One suggestion I've never had to do yet is to bench bleed it.one trick which I use is to unbolt the rear and front calipers and get them above the solid feed line and splitter manifold so the air can't get trapped there and can move to the bleed nipples .Others use pressure bleeding devices but I've never had to go that far.Unless your sure the master cylinder is worn then I'd save the money till you've got the oil pressure sorted out
    The idea with the hose clamp is to fit it around the base of the filter in such a way as the screw blocks against the pressure release valve.That would stop the filter unscrewing itself which was one problem.I've never experienced that in over 25 years ownership but a few seem to have so I now do the clamp too.
    Seems like they enlarged the oil ways which might explain the low pressure, especially if the oil pump is marginal.Seems odd they did that ,especially if they retained the smaller old pump but plenty of folk around who do odd things ! The original pumps were fine but later big blocks have higher delivery ones and bigger main bearing oil ways (need to change the sprocket too ) .If the warning light does come on then I'd say that it is not the sender .Mine flickered at 700/800 rpm and alltough it's sexy to get a low tick over ,the gurus really don't advise it for good reason.I'd get a pressure guage on and see what it reads.It will be low at low engine revs even when cold...more so when hot.You might be looking at a new pump, big end shells and main bearings.... A copy of Guzziology would be a good read if nothing else too !
    #11
  12. PeterKaa

    PeterKaa Been here awhile

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    @chris a thanks for the explanation, it makes sense with the hose clip now.
    I’ll take my chances without the clamp for now, seems unlikely that it would unscrew just like that.

    The oil pump, big end shells and mains were changed 60000km ago - I would expect those things to have at least 60k km more in them, but I’m a boat mechanic more than a Guzzi-expert.


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    #12
  13. PeterKaa

    PeterKaa Been here awhile

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    New grand master flash installed..

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    ..and bled
    Yes, that’s another LMII in the background, belongs to a buddy of mine.
    #13
  14. chris a

    chris a Been here awhile

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    Guessing you got all the air out Peter! My main bearings were still ok at 160 000, big ends got replaced as they were strangely pock marked...pump ok but when the rebuild is done I'll check out the pressure with a guage and possibly replace.Like you I got the HMB pressure release valve .Trouble is that if the bike has been used with low pressure at low revs the bearings could get hammered in a few minutes which is why I'd set up a pressure guage and then if low work back till you find the cause .Plain bearings are far more suseptical than rollers in this.I really hope you won't have to do the full nine yards...
    #14
  15. PeterKaa

    PeterKaa Been here awhile

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    Sure did, I found that it helps to bleed the system at the distributor-thingie near the right-side rear shock.

    I’m honestly not to worried about the oil pressure thing - yet :p
    I’ll see once I fire it up again with the new pressure switch and regulator, if it’s still a problem a mate has a pressure gauge and I’ll take it from there.
    The oil pan was nice and clean, if the bearings have indeed taken a hammering, I would have expected to find some white-metal flakes down there.
    The engine was noticeably quieter than my mates LMII with the valves at 0,22mm on both.
    Fingers crossed.
    #15
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  16. PeterKaa

    PeterKaa Been here awhile

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    [​IMG]

    Easy...
    #16
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  17. PeterKaa

    PeterKaa Been here awhile

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    Mother goose with a fresh MOT and ready for the slaughter house ;-)

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    #17
  18. motrhead

    motrhead Travellin' Soul

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    I had the oil filter come loose, and lost oil pressure on my V11 Lemans, a short while after a service by the dealer. Luckily I was about 2 km from home. The hose clamp is cheap insurance! Definitely tighten the filter more than you would on other bikes. I was told 1-1/4 turns. No troubles since.
    #18
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  19. PeterKaa

    PeterKaa Been here awhile

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    @motrhead

    Hmm, I might do that next time - just to be sure.

    Today I mounted some new and smaller rear indicators.
    I was planning to blast them and paint them black, but I might leave them alone.
    It’s polished aluminium rather than chrome, looks “correct” to me.

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    Next up a more modern regulator/rectifier, have been told a unit from a modern Kawa Is a good option - any experience anyone?
    I should do something about the rear shocks as well. Have given up on finding an overhaul kit for the Marzocchi stradas seems to be sold out everywhere. :-(
    #19
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  20. huub

    huub Been here awhile

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    if your bike still has its original bosch generator , i dont think a modern regulator is going to fit.
    modern bikes have permanent magnet brushless generators, the guzzi just a old fashioned three fase one
    #20