'02 640 Adv swap to Hydr. Clutch

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Para504, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. Para504

    Para504 Spam, Spam, bacon & Spam!

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    Hi guys,

    I'm looking to doing a swap over to a hydraulic clutch setup. I've been hunting around with various searches, but I'm coming up short. :dunno I've seen the generic "magura" swap, which requires grinding, etc. but I was wondering if anyone has replaced there's with a '03+ setup? If so, did it require new switch gear as well as the clutch setup? From what I understand as well, where the clutch line interfaces with the case may be different (not work) between the '02 and '03+ (vs the generic Magura kit)?
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  2. Arch

    Arch Incurable Gearhead

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    #2
  3. lvdukerider

    lvdukerider Las Vegas Nevada

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    I installed one of the Magura kits (Jack) on my 00 Duke II about a year ago. It works real nice and was easy to install. The only thing I had to do was file a small groove in the front of the switch housing so the little red ajustment knob would clear. It only took about a minuit to do and isnt noticible with the clutch lever installed. I have read that the with the newer kits you dont have to do this.
    #3
  4. Para504

    Para504 Spam, Spam, bacon & Spam!

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    Thanks guys - it sounds like most are going directly to Magura vs going through the KTM parts bin or "clutch kit"?
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  5. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

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    The Magura Jack kit is a cable eliminator with a slave cylinder/clutch lever actuator that installs in place of the cable.

    The '03 and later OEM hydro clutch uses a slave cylinder assembly that bolts on to the ('03 and later) crankcase and operates the clutch pushrod directly, without the use of shafts and levers.
    These components will not fit a '02 and earlier bike... at least not without fitting $1200 worth of '03 and later crankcases.

    C
    #5
  6. Para504

    Para504 Spam, Spam, bacon & Spam!

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    Ok, thats was I was afraid of (going the KTM route). Thanks, you just saved me a lot of trouble!
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  7. DC950

    DC950 Microadventurer

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    Why do you want to do this? If you aren't riding your bike so hard that you are having serious difficulty modulating the clutch because the engagement point changes as the clutch heats up, then don't do it.

    I have one on my bike (came with it). Yes it feels nice but only when it works. It is the only thing that has ever given me any trouble on this bike and is the likely cause of the issues I now have of getting into first gear coming to a stop.


    So far my problems have been:

    1) I've had to replace the original slave cylinder when it dumped on my way home from work, leaving me with no clutch. Replaced it with a Jack cylinder.

    2) I've had to rebuild the master cylinder when it started leaking the oil out deep in the Arkansas woods. I had to ride out in 2nd gear and use the kill switch to go 12 miles back to the hotel (and thankfully my truck).

    3) 3 days ago I was on my way to work when oil started leaking again. I had to turn around and come home and drive said truck to work. This time the hose was leaking from around the barb fitting on the banjo that goes to the slave.

    My experience is once it starts leaking, you have very few pulls before all of the oil leaks out.

    Personally, I wouldn't put one on on a bet. Just get another clutch cable and zip tie it next to the existing one. If the previous owner of my bike had given me the take off clutch parts, I'd sell you my hydraulic set up cheap. As it is, I've spent so much money on it and canaballized one Gaspipe let me borrow to the point I need to just buy it and have a complete second setup ready to go. I do keep a MC rebuild kit with my tools. Stubborn I guess.

    YMMV.
    #7
  8. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    I have an 03, and I have not had any leaking issues like you (did you contact Magura?), but I do have to let the clutch lever out a tad in order to slip it into first when stopped. Obviously the clutch is still disengaged, but it is close to engaging when I can slip it in, so I can't imagine WTF is in the way of the switching gears.

    I don't even think about it anymore, and if the problem could degrade, it hasn't (reaching 10K miles and the issue has always been there). I believe it is not consistent, meaning I believe sometimes it does slip right in - but like I said, I don't think about it anymore (probably because it hasn't caused any control problems). I was guessing it was an adjustment or alignment problem inside (clutch/tranny), but I am not about to split the cases...
    #8
  9. Loadedagain

    Loadedagain making chips

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    i agree with everything mr dc has to say. the kit (although some have been happy) offers no real benefit over a cable. as he said... run a second cable and zip tie it to the existing one. if it breaks while riding you can flip it over in minutes.

    read creeps post. your clutch is an oem ktm unit with internal slave cylinder. it is not a kit. it was designed for your bike and does offer a number of advantages the aftermarket retrofit does not.

    you aint comparing apples to apples.
    #9
  10. DC950

    DC950 Microadventurer

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    I believe the shifting problems are a direct result of many unavoidable 1-2-1 gear grindings. You have to do what you have to do to get home or out of the Arkansas woods. That is unless you really want to marry a banjo player.
    #10
  11. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    The Motion Pro cables look plenty beefy. They might also help in addition to having a second ready and waiting. Someone recently posted some pics comparing the Motion Pro cables to OEM - noticeable differences.

    I also wonder how common it is for folks to lube their cables? I see the little widgets to help lube cables, but I never hear anyone talk about lubing cables.

    yeah, good info. but I was just trying to point out that the OEM hydro clutch can have some shifting issues (which may not be Magura related), without leaking problems.
    #11
  12. Loadedagain

    Loadedagain making chips

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    never used a motion pro cable... i still have the original cable on my bike with 25k on the bike. there is a second one zip tied to it just incase though.

    never have lubed my cables. maybe one day it'll get me. but i've got spares on there so....

    gotcha with the hydro issues you've had. i have an oem magura hydraulic clutch on my exc. i believe it's the same as your 640. never had problems with it, but i bleed it regularily... i just don't trust it. if it leaks i'm screwed. if i had a cable and a spare i'm covered.
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  13. Arch

    Arch Incurable Gearhead

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    My CCM Supermoto came with the same Domino controls and after its cable snapped right at the ferrule (same place I've seen LC4 cables go), I took a close look at the lever and the spot where the cable break occurred coincided with some burrs in the channel in the lever right where it (the cable) passes through. I cleaned the area up with a file and never had any more problems. It's worth a look even if the stock cable has never had a problem.

    I swapped for the hydro clutch because I love the superb feel and pull and it's been 100% reliable over several Rocky Mountain and Big Bend trips, or perhaps 4k miles of dual-sport usage. Mostly dirt, actually, as the bike typically gets towed to the good stuff. Anyway, ditto for the couple of guys I know have the same setup.

    However swapping it back over to the stock setup is a cinch, so I keep the lever & cable in the small spares bin we take on trips - 'cause I'm a worrywart. Hell, it's all small enough to keep and forget about at the bottom of the tankbag, just in case. Maybe I'll do that when I get back in the saddle if the bike stays in the stable.
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  14. Para504

    Para504 Spam, Spam, bacon & Spam!

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    DC950, sorry to hear about your experience. That sucks...

    I can certainly understand the arguement for keeping the cables; simplicity and rundancy are a wonderful thing... However, I am spoiled with previous hydraulic clutches I've had. I really like the feel of the magura's, though the LC4 clutch pull isn't bad (compared to some).

    I'm in the process of cleaning up a used bike I just bought and tweaking it for my preferences. Maybe I'll give the motion pro cables a shot before doing the hydro. Thanks all! :thumb
    #14
  15. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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  16. Drif10

    Drif10 Accredited Jackass

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    Went thru 3 cables in a year on my 02. Got tired of the hassle and got the Jack. Worked flawlessly ever since.
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  17. Stobie

    Stobie Mr. Motivated

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    I have a Jack kit on the shelf in my garage. It's going on as soon as the temp in my garage drops below 95 de-damn-grees.
    #17
  18. billy bee

    billy bee AAdventurer

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    My cable snapped while I was splitting lanes in LA. Sucked. Luckily, I had a spare zip-tied to the broken one. Trouble was I kept burning my knuckles on the exhaust while trying to detach and re-attach the cable at the clutch arm.

    Got the thing swapped out in 10 minutes with a hot engine and no tools.

    There is an aftermarket cable available. I am trying that next. See how well that one wears... If it sucks, too, I am switching to hydraulic.

    bb
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  19. Stobie

    Stobie Mr. Motivated

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    I just installed my Jack kit about an hour ago. The slave cylinder had a little oil on it right out of the box, but I figured it was a little spillage from filling at the factory.

    I went ahead and installed it, and the slave cylinder is leaking like crazy around the pull-rod that actually pulls on the clutch arm. I'm going to contact the parts dealer I bought it from, but I have a feeling I'm going to have to deal with Magura. At this point, I'm not sure how much I'll trust it. If I can return it for a refund, I might go back to cable(s).

    FYI, no filing is required on the switch housing with this new kit, as lvdukerider mentioned above.
    #19
  20. lvdukerider

    lvdukerider Las Vegas Nevada

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    Thats no good, I rember Magura stating in the install manual that the slave cylinder should fit loose in the mount so that there is no side to side pressure on actuator rod or it will cause a leak. Since you said it had fluid on it right out of the box I dont suppose thats the problem though. I sure hope you get it worked out mines been trouble free (knock on wood) and has a real nice feel to it.
    #20