02 640A Leakin' Oil

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by AndyB, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. AndyB

    AndyB Lonely Traveler

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    Hey guys the beast has sprung a leak damnit. Leaking where the shift shaft comes thru the Kickstart shaft. looking in the manuel, appears #6,O ring(s) ist quanity as 3 of them, is probably the culprit. puuled the shifter off and the only thing i find is the V seal. So i assume i gotta pull the shaft out from the other side? how big a pain in the ass is this gonna be? gotta pull the whole clutch basket too i assume to get to the rascal?...Anything i should be weary of while disasymbly/reasymbly???
    any words o wisdom Mr. Creeper?
    thanks in advance......,AndyB

    oh by the way, Vintage Days at Mid O. was great!
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  2. AndyB

    AndyB Lonely Traveler

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    well i was hoping for a little info here. the leak ain't bad but in a cpl rides has got worse. went from just a little pearl on bottom side of kicker. but now the more i shift the more it leaks. "Duh"... was hoping to hear from someone who's had to make this repair or someone who gets into these motors. the manuel unclear just as to where these O rings are located. like i said earlier, nothing behind shifter except the V seal????? thanks again, A
    #2
  3. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

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    You may be in deep doo doo Andy.... but you get one "last chance" to find out.

    The "V-seal" is the only seal that is easily accessible from outside the engine... everything else (except maybe the kicker shaft seal) requires splitting the cases.
    There is a seal... #9 in the diagram that is pressed into the end of the kicker shaft that you may be able to get out... but if you scar up one or both of the shafts doing it, you are screw'd for sure.

    #9 54632090000 SEAL RING DH/GR 12x19x3

    [​IMG]

    This is your last chance.

    Pull the shifter off and pull the V-seal off.
    Now, spray the #9 seal preferably with silicone spray or some other light oil that is kind to rubber parts.
    The idea here is to clean, flush out and clear the area around the kicker shaft seal, shafts and face of the kicker.
    Spray from the seal area out, to flush out the seal lip and to flush away grit from the seal.

    All clean and lubed up?
    You can see the greenish blue colored shift shaft seal? Good.
    The seal looks to be in good shape? More gooder yet still.

    Now... either buy a new V-seal or clean the old one, again with a rubber friendly spray product. I like silicone because it tends to restore rubber seals that are a bit dry from age.

    Now that everything is clean, grit free and well lubed, put it all back together and go for a ride.

    Did it stop leaking? Yes? :clap
    Is it still leaking? Yes? You are screwed and will have to split the cases.

    Told ya'... last chance.

    Best 'O luck,
    C
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  4. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    :eek1

    :lurk
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  5. motowest

    motowest Two-wheeled Adventurer

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    ditto what popsicle said...:eek1
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  6. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    I have a vested interest in your experiences... I have not torn into it. I have just cleaned up the area to watch for more leaking. I had forgotten about this thread, and Creeper brought it back to my attention; thanks mang :smooch

    So in my preliminary look at the diagram and parts list I noticed the following two seals:


    #17
    Item #: 0760223270
    SHAFT SEAL RING 22X32X7 BSL
    Quanity On Diagram: 1
    Cost Each: $7.25

    #7
    Item #: 58038022000
    CU-SEAL RING DIN7603-12X18X1,5
    Quanity On Diagram: 1
    Cost Each: $1.50

    I am guessing Creeper called #17 the "kicker shaft seal", but I will have to look again at the parts list to find the V seal, et al. Not sure of the importance of #7. I'd like to know what things are before I start in there.
    #6
  7. BlitzBike

    BlitzBike LC4 Pilot

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    Oh joy! I think I have this issue now too.
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  8. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

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    It's all in your head.

    :D

    Mine dribbled a bit. Cleaning the V-seal and all the junk off the shift shaft seal put an end to it.

    I think... you'd have to have fallen hard on the shifter, or have a old or high mile bike to have that shift shaft (9) seal fail.
    Or figure out a way to pack a bunch of gritty muck into it. :wink:
    #8
  9. rjf

    rjf SBS's #1 fan in January

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    Same here. I looked a the pic first (cause I'm simple :rofl ) and saw "THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE :thwak ".

    :eek1

    i thought Creeper had gone postal :gun2 at Andy:cry


    But thankfully he hasn't:knary




    But I suppose the day isn't over yet !:evil
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  10. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

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    We haven't heard from AndyB since my first post in this thread... hope I didn't scare him, it wasn't my intention. :dunno

    What I meant was it was his last and only chance before splitting the cases. :nod
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  11. meat popsicle

    meat popsicle Ignostic

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    The KOD in retirement? Spanish Riveria? :KOD
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  12. rjf

    rjf SBS's #1 fan in January

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    Yeah as soon as I read the post I knew that, it's just the first words I saw were "this is your last chance".

    I don't think the post scared him off.





    Your avatar on the other hand may have :yikes


    :oscar
    #12
  13. BlitzBike

    BlitzBike LC4 Pilot

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    Which part is the so called "V-seal"?
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  14. AndyB

    AndyB Lonely Traveler

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    hey guys just gettin back on here (uh... sum trying circumstances have averted my attention from a a leaky bike, So i Apologise for my absence in all this) and Wow! alot of interested folks and concern here. ...well, stayed tuned i have sum Q-uestions <that's a capital Q there.... I've cleaned thoroughly said afflicted area and replaced the "V seal" ,and after 1 hard shifting ride leak seems non apparrent? which really raises a big ? that'll be addressed later (soon).... going for a ride tomorrow, and will be in touch.

    thanks for the interests though, 'cause if i gotta split the cases (damnit!) i'm gonna need sum support.., AndyB
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  15. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

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    It's the odd shaped "seal", #17 between the shifter and the kicker. It' there to keep schmutz out of the "real" seal... #9.
    If a bit of schmutz gets thru and into the conventional #9 seal... that's when you spring a leak.
    You may be able to clean it out and stop (or reduce) the leak... or it may be too far gone to do any good.

    With a dedicated tool, you might be able to get the #9 seal out of the kicker shaft without damaging either one of the shafts. It's something I've been thinking about since I first posted the infamous "last chance" line. :evil

    I'm working on a tool shape that one could grind or file into a small, high quality screwdriver to turn it into a seal puller; that would be what I'd try to do if mine was leaking like a sieve... at least before I split the cases. :D
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  16. AndyB

    AndyB Lonely Traveler

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    Hey guys, finally sitting my ass down to give an up date to the leaking beast...
    quote by Creeper = [I think... you'd have to have fallen hard on the shifter, or have a old or high mile bike to have that shift shaft (9) seal fail].

    ...Well possible that shifter took a hit ? i do ride in sum pretty rocky trail, but as far as "high" mielage, only 8500m on the odo.

    [Or figure out a way to pack a bunch of gritty muck into it.]

    ...that's quite possible too, but i haven't noticed when cleaning and i'm rather fastidious about cleaning up such areas after mucky muck rides.


    well i got in and cleaned the wound very well along with sum sweeping blast of air(mostly to dry the area). and i got a new "V" seal, although no apparent damage to original could i find.
    took it for a cpl. rides and shifted the hell out of it. guess what? no pearls hanging on the pinch "knuckels" of kicker (this is where i first noticed leak), and i figured ok, had sum grit get in there, which got the seal leaking.... But yeah, after a cpl. off road rides the seal (#9) is weeping again, only Not like it was (so far)...!
    ...Which is sumthing i am still in question of ? ...the leak can be at times nothing more than a seep or enough so, that it blows back on frame rail, OR none at all ??? could pressure in the crank cause this ??? i can't imagine that much pressure building And i've checked all crank vents for any kinda blockage...
    ...After sum consultation with mech. and buddy who had the cases split on his 400, ...the consensus is, that the seal won't catastrophically fail and dump alll the oil out, like i have a fear of while up sum back woods hollow out in the middle of nowhere.....
    The reason of that conclusion is, that the tolerences of the 2 shafts just won't let that much oil flow....?

    So for now, i'm gonna live with the seeping leak and maybe this winter i'll split the cases. Unless that is, Creeper you are successful fabbing up such a tool.....
    from Creeper...[ I'm working on a tool shape that one could grind or file into a small, high quality screwdriver to turn it into a seal puller; that would be what I'd try to do if mine was leaking like a sieve... at least before I split the cases.]

    Sorry for the length of this post, but just trying to explain it thouroghly.
    Thanks for all the input n help guys........Ride on, AndyB
    #16
  17. BlitzBike

    BlitzBike LC4 Pilot

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    I just got the so-called V-seal #17 today. I'm gonna install and see if it does anything to the catastrphic flow I have develped. I have a feeling #9 will have to change too. Any of you guys sellin' seal pullers yet?
    Will report findings ASAP
    #17
  18. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

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    I've been considering modifying a small screwdriver into a seal puller for this application. I haven't made one yet, and even if I did, I'm not going to "donate" my perfectly good seal to the cause... sorry. :wink:

    Anyway... here's a sketch of what would probably work... the numbers are off the top of my head, so take it all with a grain of salt.
    Width and thickness may need to be adjusted... dimensions needs to be thin enough to be able to insert, rotate and lock the hook of the tool behind the metal body of the seal, but thick enough to take a pull sufficient to pop the seal without the tool itself bending much.

    Having smugmug issues so I'll do it as an attachment.

    Attached Files:

    • tool.JPG
      tool.JPG
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  19. BlitzBike

    BlitzBike LC4 Pilot

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    Lets see if I'm understanding this correctly....So the diagram on the left is the blown up view of the tip of the diagram on the right? And theoretically you could pull the seal through the shaft hole? (I'm guessing)
    I reckon it would be an equal trick to re-insert the new. Of course, not having torn it apart, I'm still a little clueless as to how that seal #9 is situated in there. I'm gonna try the V-seal first and cross my fingures but, 300 Lbs of human torqing the kicker and the occasional road rage
    agro- shifting may have tweeked number #9 too ( I hope not ).
    #19
  20. creeper

    creeper Still alive...

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    The views are the side and "front" of a tool which would slide in between the shift shaft and rubber portion of the seal. Once you've done this, the seal is ruined and why I'm not in a position to "test" my own tool design.

    Once inserted, the tool would be rotated firmly to "hook" the metal, outer body portion of the seal... then the seal can be pulled out.

    The seal pops out, you clean the area well, and using a piece of appropriately sized tubing, you install the new seal to flush or slightly below flush.

    Easy as falling off a motorcycle. :wink:
    #20