'09 KLR Engine Problems

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by advhound, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

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    What you are looking at on the end of the exhaust cam is the remnants of your automatic compression release mechanism. It consist of 2 weights pivoted on one end connected by a coil spring that keep 1 exhaust valve partially open at cranking speeds.

    I think the spring broke or unhooked allowing one of the weights to open enough to hit the head and leverage the exhaust cam up with enough force to pull the cam cap bolt out the head. There are more parts to it some where.

    That might have allowed the cam chain to either come off or slip enough to cause the the valves to contact the piston and bend. In any event, the fact that the starter can't turn over the engine is probably because the bike is out of time and the valves are hitting the piston. How that occured merely cranking the bike is a mystery to me. If you hand turned the engine clock wise, it could have allowed the chain tensioner to back off.

    You might be able to fix it, if the cams or bearings did not get scored but probably be cheaper to find another head complete with cams. You will need more disassembly to determine what else is damaged.
    #21
  2. Beezer

    Beezer Long timer

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    any news??????????
    #22
  3. advhound

    advhound Adventurer

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    I haven't made time to tear into the engine further, but plan to soon. I will remove the exhaust cam assembly and inspect for damage and/or broken parts.
    #23
  4. rustynut2

    rustynut2 Been here awhile

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    You ran it dry on oil. The exhaust cam is first to go, last on the oil line. The compression release broke when it hit the top of the valve cover. The bolts are loose because the cam ate its way into the head,, melting and destroying the aluminum as it got hot.

    You will need a new head, cams and might as well do the 685 kit since its a oil burner. The bottom should be fine.

    Why did it shut down? Best see if it threw the cam chain and bent the valves. Check valve clearences, if one or more are large the valve hit the piston.

    If the engine is locked up it likely has more internal damage. Remove the head and cyl. and see if it turns over BY HAND.
    #24
  5. advhound

    advhound Adventurer

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    I will probably begin by removing the head and the cylinder as you suggested and continue to uncover what may be causing the motor to be bound up.

    If it come to it, what am I looking at if I need to buy a new head and cam assembly? Would I buy both an exhaust and an intake cam assembly? Should I plan on buying the parts new from Kawi? What will a replacement head and cams cost?
    #25
  6. GreatWhiteNorth

    GreatWhiteNorth Long timer

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    I've been keeping my eyes peeled on eBay for a good deal on a used cylinder head. They are rare as hens teeth, and expensive when they do pop up. On eBay, I saw a new OEM bare head assembly (i.e no valves, valve springs or cams included) be listed "buy it now" for $800+ By the time you've added replacement cams (you'll probably only need a new exhaust cam) and all the valve train parts you're talking well over $1K! Almost better off looking for a parts bike for yourself. Used KLR650 engines go for $1500 to $1800 on eBay - maybe you can get lucky and find a complete parts bike and/or a good engine relatively close to you for roughly that price, or less? Trouble is, everybody is looking for good deals like that... I know I am.
    #26
  7. Beezer

    Beezer Long timer

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    I considered the low oil syndrome, but didn't see the usual gaps that appear between the cam & followers and the cap & boss. easy way to tell is to pull the cam. also the oil filter will be full of aluminum.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/05-Kawasaki...Parts_Accessories&hash=item19d666dbfa&vxp=mtr

    good price but you need the caps.... they are machined with the head when it's made.

    the intake cam will be OK, the rt side journal on the ex cam will be hashed

    there is a company that repairs them but it's not cheap
    #27
  8. RandoCommando

    RandoCommando Wannabe

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  9. advhound

    advhound Adventurer

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    Hey guys, long time no update, by I'm back at it!

    Tore into it and sure enough the exhaust cam shaft is scored and the head journals for the exhaust cam shaft are fairly chewed up. Oil was dark, but no shards of metal at all.

    My best guess of what happened is because the exhaust camshaft is the last part of the engine to get oil, it went dry first, started getting chewed up, camshaft seized up, killed the engine. The key from the cam chain gear to the exhaust cam shaft was broken, so the gear is spinning freely. What do you guys think?

    My thoughts on what needs to be replaced as of now:
    -new head
    -new exhaust cam shaft journals
    -new cam chain because it was strained?
    -what else?
    @Beezer & @RandoCommando - Wish I would have hopped on those links sooner, I just hadn't torn into the engine to confirm what I needed yet. What do you guys think of this, $650 for head assembly with valves: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-KL...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item589cd1e15f

    What do I need to look into next? Make sure the valves weren't bent?

    Shot of engine block from the right side:
    [​IMG]

    Shot of exhaust cam shaft damage:
    [​IMG]

    Shot of the top journals:
    What is the tube connecting the intake and exhaust cam shaft journals?
    [​IMG]
    #29
  10. bete

    bete misguided adventurer

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    That's how oil get's to the exhaust side, there is a small o-ring on both ends, if the ring is bad the oil leaks out the tube fitting and doesn't make it to the cam. bete
    #30
  11. larryboy

    larryboy Chopper Rider

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    Yup, starved for oil. Another example that all KLR's need to have the oil screen cleaned sooner rather than later.

    You need to pull the right side cover and clean the screen. Also take the oil pump apart and check for scoring.

    PM sent about a deal on a head and every last part you might need. I have a good oil pump if you need it also.

    You shouldn't need a cam chain, they're pretty tough on the KLR...tensioner might be fully extended.
    #31
  12. Beezer

    Beezer Long timer

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    sooooooo.......... why did it run out of oil? might be time to re-ring the piston while the head is off. better yet a 685/688 better look at the cylinder & do some measurin'
    #32
  13. RandoCommando

    RandoCommando Wannabe

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    What ^^^ said.
    Talk to EagleMike about doing the 685/688.
    #33
  14. larryboy

    larryboy Chopper Rider

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    I thought they were fixed by 2009?

    98% chance the screen is plugged, that's how it goes most of the time as you well know.
    #34
  15. Hannda

    Hannda Short, fat, bearded, slow

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    :stupid
    #35
  16. securety10

    securety10 Stuck...

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    I purchased an 08 KLR for my dad knowing it had been run out of oil ie cams were shot. I intended to do a 685 on his bike for our trip no matter what so i figured it was worth the gmable. My plan was to just replace the head and cams. I have seen them on ebay (with cams) for $500 or sometimes a little less. Personally think $650 without cams is to much, but they are fairly rare so if time is of the essence you may have no choice.

    I ended up finding a complete 08 engine with <1000 miles on ebay that I paid ~$900 for. At $1800 I doubt those engines sell. The guy had this one listed for $1100 with best offer so I offered $750ish (then there was $150 shipping) and he accepted. I figure I can sell off parts of the other one to decrease the cost even further, IMO it was a better deal than just buying a head and cams. You can check prices items sold (or if they didn't sell on ebay). I went thru and saw he had listed the motor for $<1000 previously and it didn't sell. Don't be afraid to make a 'resonable' offer.

    It is a bit of a crap shoot as to the bottom end, I have heard stories both ways. I'd definetly do your best to flush it with kerosene or diesel to flush all the shavings out of the motor. Pull the oil screen as said before. Some people get away with this (this was my plan before finding the whole motor) but sometimes you just can't get the aluminum shavings out of the bearings and most people consider the bottom end a lost cause if the crank bearing goes (one of the parts I believe the race isn't available so you have to replace the whole crank).

    As to your questions, only buy a head that includes the journal caps, they are machined as a unit. My guess is the cam chain will be fine, but I believe there are specs for it in the manual if you have one. Also pull the left side cover to veryify everything in there is good. I personally wouldn't reuse the valves, but you can determine if they are good enough. I'd pretty much consider the head a total loss and go from there. The intake cam journals look 'ok' based on the pic in my phone so I'd imagine the intake cam is decent and may be reusable, but make sure the cam is smooth to the touch. If it isn't ditch it also. Good luck.
    #36
  17. advhound

    advhound Adventurer

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    How much would a re-ring go? Would a re-ring be a sure bet to stop the oil burning problem?

    Will catch up with EagleMike, or maybe he'll chime in on this thread. Have been thinking about doing the 685/688 kit. Which kits do you guys have experience with? How much has it cost you guys to bore out the block in your experience?

    Wow, thanks for the great guidelines info on cost. Also, good idea on washing the engine out with diesel or kerosene. Will definitely make sure that I get the cam caps that go with the head. Will measure the cam chain to make sure it's within tolerance - does anybody have the spec off-hand? Not sure that I still have my manual around/ever received it. Also, I haven't seen hardly any shavings from my exploration. Just a couple small shavings in the oil filter. Hopefully I won't need to look into replacing output shaft bearings etc. in the bottom end.
    #37
  18. advhound

    advhound Adventurer

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    [​IMG]

    Update for you guys. Spend a good amount working on it yesterday and finally got the head off!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Looks like the intake valves shown signs of the piston contacting? The intake valves definitely do not even come close to sealing, so I am guessing that the valves are bent.

    [​IMG]

    Head in up position. Are the indentations from contacting the valves something that would require a piston replacement?

    [​IMG]

    At this point, it is clear almost the entire top-end needs replacing. Does the carbon buildup looking uncharacteristically bad for a KLR? The piston sleeve/block do not look scored at all. Might get away with a re-sleeve, but am thinking of boring it out. Would the re-sleeve solve the oil burning problem? See post above for some additional questions I asked. Going to get a new top-end coming and clean out the engine with kerosene or diesel and check out the oil pump and oil screen. Really getting the itch to ride again!

    Thanks again for all of your help guys, wouldn't be making it this far without you guys. Awesome community!
    #38
  19. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    Sorry if I missed it in the thread, did the bike run out of oil or was there an oil delivery problem to the exhaust cam?
    #39
  20. advhound

    advhound Adventurer

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    I have not cleaned/checked the oil screen. The oil was low, so I am thinking of re-sleeving or doing a big bore kit because I am suspect that is the source of the oil burn/leak problem. Wouldn't doubt that the screen has some build-up - this is my next project to look into.
    #40