1150GS - noisy fuel pump/spluttering at half tank

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Flys Lo, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

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    Just let me know when you are in Branson!



    #41
  2. vintagerider

    vintagerider Long timer

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    tips that might help:
    soak threads enzymatic rust reformer; the small diameter lines should be re-used as they carry no pressure; the small clamps pop open on the pump plate- do not cut them; withdraw the pump plate and strip it bare.

    Pop off the float arm- it and the filter need to be off to svc the wiper on the float which is cleaned w/new no.2 pencil erasure.

    May have to rig up new float end stops w/ bit of hose zip tied to plate. Clean the points and adj the float tension by bending the L bracket which receives float arm, in or out.

    Float arm should move on its own with slight resistance.

    Use a stiff wire and solvent to clean out all ports, particularly OPD/tank vent in filler neck and filler neck water drain.

    Insulation may be gone on pump wiring, replace with ptfe or other submersible wire.. clean and tighten ground.

    Note the large electrical bulked fitting on pump plate. There is a spring retainer which compresses an o-ring seal which you can not see. In some cases this may have failed or begun to fail. If there was evidence of leaking at the bulkhead then the pump plate needs to be replaced. Sometimes the concealed o-ring will leak if the pump plate has been left dry for a while than it may slowly re-seal after filling tank. To repair the bulkhead leak one would need to locate a new crimp ring and de-solder to remove bulkhead fitting to replace o-ring (Viton).

    ++ When refitting the plump plate, index the flat spot to the front tank mount U's. The spring type small tube clamps are pita to re-fit. Do not use screw clamps because they will interfere with the seating of the flange to the tank. I use hd grade nylon ty-wraps.

    ++ Hold a nut driver between thumb and index finger to very lightly seat the retaining nuts. It is very easy to snap off the tank studs. I use a dry Viton big o-ring in U.S. size. Easy to set if the tank is on its side and empty.

    other--The float arm can not be replaced once you have re-installed the filter! . Old hose should be cut off so you do not snap off the pump outlet. It is easy to knock the pump pressure release valve retaining clip off oem vdo pumps. Make sure the ball bearing and spring are in place.

    The fuel suction screen should always be replaced - use the cheap paper ones, index with fuel return outlet so that it does not interfere with float arm. Ignore other posts telling you to bend the float arm. If all the fittings are clean and tight and tension of points to gauge is tight then the gauge will work fine. The hair spring wire needs to be placed back in the vdo circuit board retainer.

    On early 1100 filler neck the old OPD device looks like an oval float. If it won't stay connected to the filler neck tube then can upgrade filler neck to 1150 type. The old filler o-ring can be re-used if it is left to shrink back down.
    #42
  3. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    I'm still wondering about fuel pump plate orientation and some kind of obstruction in the vent system. Take special not on both those items. Since all the hoses are on the pressurized since of the tank, cracks there (and you may well find them) would not be sensitive to fuel level.

    One other thing you could look at is some obstruction at the anti tip valve. Mine was mounted in the wrong orientation.

    The good news is by working at this slowly you are very likely to find the cause.
    #43
  4. Flys Lo

    Flys Lo cool hand fluke

    Joined:
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    Thanks for all of your input.
    Finally was able to get up to the farm this weekend with the bike and work on it.
    Pulled the tank, drained it, rinsed it with some fuel and drained it again (didn't have the time to wash it with water and let it dry thoroughly)

    Prior to the job I had purchased the replacement (non OEM) fuel pump kit from Beemer Boneyard, I had also purchased 1' of high pressure submersible fuel line, and 1' of standard high pressure fuel line. I had a few submersible fuel connectors lying around that I used on this job as well.

    I removed the existing pump, filter and in-tank lines from the fuel sender.
    Cleaned the swipe for the fuel guage with ear buds (Q-tips for the seppos) that were covered in contact cleaner.
    I decided while I was doing this, I may as well mount the filter externally - so future filter changes won't be the pain in the arse, remove the tank, have 6 beers and swear a lot kind of jobs...

    So I replaced the filter and the 2 fuel hoses connected to it, with an 8" length of the submersible line... the bend at the top of it was a bit too tight for my preference, but so much that it has kinked the line.
    Fitted the new pump, other submersible hose and filter sock.
    Installed the whole assembly back in the fuel tank.
    Removed the external fuel line on the bike (not the return line!).
    Cut 2 short sections of the new external fuel line, with the fuel filter in between them and zip tied the fuel filter to frame about where the electrical connector for the fuel tank is located.
    Got some contact cleaner, and one of the little brushes you can get at your dentist for cleaning in between your teeth, and cleaned the corrosion off the electrical connector for the tank... Covered the connectors with some carbon grease.

    Refitted the fuel tank and plumbed it all back in. Started it up - fuel gauge is fine. Filled it back up with fuel. I will need to wait till it gets down till half a tank to see if it is still making the noise/spluttering, but hopefully not. I'll let you know if it does/doesn't tomorrow.

    Took it for a quick spin up to a bit over 200 (~125mph) to see if the bend in the fuel line in tank was starving it of fuel - didn't seem so.

    I also had to reset the ABS system while the seat was off, as the bastard mechanic I had taken the bike to to get serviced last f'd up the rear ABS sensor (got a used one, and had to reset it)... serves me right for being lazy and not doing it all myself.


    Sorry for no pictures, was in a bloody rush to get the job done before it hit 35 (~95 F) outside.
    #44
  5. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

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    You broke the law. :eek1 If you turn yourself in, we'll go easy on you. :nod
    #45
  6. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    Just read your central and South America thread. Really an interesting read.

    Did you check that your vent and neck drain lines are clear?

    The pinched hose in the tank is very likely to become a problem at some point. Mouthfullofflake found a corrugated plastic hose that can me bent. If you search it was sometime in the last 6 months.
    #46
  7. Flys Lo

    Flys Lo cool hand fluke

    Joined:
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    Thanks - it itsn't ideal, although its not kinked. I will see if I can find the thread you are referring to.

    The noisy fuel pump and the splutter at half a tank has gone :clap


    Thanks for all your help.
    #47
  8. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

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    the corrugated hose was from either beemer boneyard, or euromotive electric.

    I used steel hard brake line and bent a U, flared the ends , because it was available locally, and was cheap.

    edit-

    found it

    http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/BMW-Hose-for-In-Tank-Submersion-16-13-1-455-350-p/fp-hosekit.htm

    from this thread

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=782226

    notice the large O ring for the pump flang to tank seal is a #348

    Viton ( reusable) from mcmaster carr ( the 6.30 price is for 2 of them, which is more than a lifetime supply)

    VitonĀ® Fluoroelastomer
    Fractional
    Size
    Actual
    Inch Size
    AS568A
    Dash No. ID OD ID OD Pkg.
    Qty. Per
    Pkg.
    Width: 3/16" Fractional (0.210" Actual)
    348 4 3/8" 4 3/4" 4.350" 4.770" 2 9464K611 $6.30
    #48
  9. MotoBoss

    MotoBoss Bad Influence

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    Flys Lo I have the same bike and have not, as yet knock on wood, had any problems. When and if I do ever need it I will refer to this post. Thanks for sharing and everyones reply.
    #49
  10. Flys Lo

    Flys Lo cool hand fluke

    Joined:
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    between my last drink and my next one
    #50
  11. Mugwest

    Mugwest .

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    Just found this thread, fellas, and there are some need to know details when using the EME (John Rayske) submersible fuel line kit on an 11xx model bike:

    I'd bought the EME kit way back in 2011 for the full-boat inner-tank refurb that Vintagerider is always harping on. Well i finally got around to it right after New Years 2013.

    Here are the crucial details w/ the EME submersible kit:

    You will get the following pieces in the EME kit:

    [​IMG]

    You'll use 1 hose section to make the 'U'. You will cut off a lot of the straights, think it was 20mm or more (leaving just enough to cover the filter's/hardline's barbs). I went conservative at first so i wouldn't cut off too much. Conservative made the 'U' hoop too wide, fouling the level arm's float travel. Cut off 10mm more and it was fine

    You'll then cut off the straight sections of the 2nd corrugated piece to make the 2 small sections between pump/hardline and filter/hardline.

    And here's where the kit bites you.

    You'll find yourself lacking 2 of the small FI clamps to finish the job. The kit comes w/ 4 clamps, and you need 6 to replace all 3 sections ('U' takes 2 clamps, and both small sections takes 2 clamps)

    So no big, right? Run to local A-Zone etc for more clamps, right? Nope. :nah The hard plastic submersible line is thin gauge, needing a small 7mm-ish clamp. If you had FI clamps on the old rubber hose (from prev. filter replacement), they're too big and can't close enough for the new submersible line to seal

    I ended up having to refit my old 133k miles short hose sections b/c i had to get the bike back to good that same day (a Sunday). No possibility to run around locally looking for oddball tiny FI hose clamps.


    I emailed John Rayske and the gang at EME the next morning letting them know that their kit needs 2 more clamps for 11xx bikes. They said they'd update the kit, but i see tonight the website listing hasn't been updated

    Hope this helps, folks. The submersible EME kit hose looks like good, solid stuff. Just order more small clamps until they get their web listing updated
    #51