1190 Starting issues

Discussion in 'Ridiculous streetbikes with 6 CPUs and too much HP' started by Bluesilver, May 10, 2014.

  1. Bluesilver

    Bluesilver Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Oddometer:
    783
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi

    Maybe someone can shed some light on this cause KTM has no clue.

    I've had my fair share of problems, all repaired under warranty from new but one problem is grinding my cheese, starting the bike when it's been in the cold.

    Has any one found a fix for this? I asked KTMSA but they say they 'heard" of isolated problems in Europe but no fix from Austria.:huh

    I heard changing out with a Li battery does not sort the sluggish start so where to now?

    Winter is coming our side and I have a tour planned but already, at 14deg Celsius the bike is JUST able to swing over even with a fully charged battery.:cry

    Anyone?

    Thanks

    TREV
    #1
  2. ebrew

    ebrew Motorcycle A.D.D.

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,472
    Location:
    Denver colo
    The cold starting issue we can't get fixed in the USA

    Nice huh

    There are even part numbers for new cables we can't get ( cool huh)
    #2
  3. ebrew

    ebrew Motorcycle A.D.D.

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,472
    Location:
    Denver colo
    The cold starting issue we can't get fixed in the USA

    Nice huh

    There are even part numbers for new cables we can't get ( cool huh)

    Even with the few problems I had with the Ducati mts 1200 the parent company was way better than Ktm has been. Ktm is a joke when it comes to fixing known issues. It would seen if a bike is having a problem in one part of the world it might just do the same elsewhere. Just a thought
    #3
  4. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,290
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas
    My bike is acting like it's having difficulty starting in South Texas heat. Hate to think what it might do in cold weather. Cranking speed is rather slow.
    #4
  5. sleepyOwl

    sleepyOwl Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Oddometer:
    2,506
    Location:
    United Kingdom of her Majesty's Tax Collectors
    Have you had all the updates done? I'm not sure what was included but since I have had them done here in the UK it is certainly better.

    I also keep it on an Optimate which also seems to help.
    #5
  6. gunshot72

    gunshot72 Knee down an 1190 ADV

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    Oddometer:
    337
    Location:
    UK
    The issue is a weak starter motor. It's worse in cold temps. I'm having a new starter fitted next week under warranty but I'm not convinced it will sort the issue as the dealer refused to confirm of the new starter was the same part or a newer improved version. Some of the KTM dealers in Holland have fitted the Super Duke R starter motor with great success. See Dutch geezer here who had the issue and now resolved...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDf986Rh6mI&list=UUVaLU8mwhJPCZVIyx08HbJg
    #6
  7. WickedKTM

    WickedKTM Lost

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Oddometer:
    105

    What are the part numbers?
    #7
  8. ebrew

    ebrew Motorcycle A.D.D.

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,472
    Location:
    Denver colo
    Of the bags
    Can't host Picts
    #8
  9. Corsica101

    Corsica101 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Oddometer:
    465
    Location:
    Palma de Mallorca
    I think this issue was fixed with a firmware update. I had it done in dec. in Spain and haven't had any starting issues. Fellow rider Martin I met in Puerto Montt as well had serious starting issues and looked like his intake valves got stuck. Think it was because off the not so good sealing airbox and valves getting dirty but not sure anymore...he was using the original paper filter.
    I've installed the Uni-filter and haven't had any issues.

    Hope this helps...
    #9
  10. ebrew

    ebrew Motorcycle A.D.D.

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,472
    Location:
    Denver colo
    Updates here I'm aware of or the dealers
    #10
  11. Bluesilver

    Bluesilver Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Oddometer:
    783
    Location:
    South Africa
    Thanks for all the feedback, I contacted KTM South Africa and they know of the "isolated" issue globally but since KTM Austria has done nothing about it, they won't do anything, "hope that helps" they tell me.:huh

    Every warranty repair done I hear in the USA takes MONTHS to reach SA and then KTMSA knows nothing so I'm finding there is no proactive responses to any issues, it looks like wait and see how much the people bitch and what KTM Austria do.:kboom

    Either way seems like a SURE fix is the 1290 starter, if KTM don't sort this out fast then I'm gonna get rid of the bike, just to many visits to the dealer for what KTM tells us, is a bike that has had EXTENSIVE development in the desert and dirt...:lol3...I'm still waiting for my airbox to be fixed.:huh

    Anyway, my rant for the day, again thanks for the feedback, time to go test the new GS1200LC.
    #11
  12. RobZorba

    RobZorba Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Oddometer:
    765
    Location:
    Albania
    #12
  13. ABuck99

    ABuck99 0.0

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Oddometer:
    702
    Location:
    Georgia
    Interesting video- His dealer was on to something.... installing the 1290 starter in the 1190 ( wonder if they also upgraded the battery cables?).

    I looked up the part numbers and compared: the 2014 1290 Super Duke R does have a different starter motor than the 2014 1190ADV - all other parts list components( torque limiter, idler gear, rotor, screws, bolts, bush ect) all appear to use the same/interchangeable. There is no further information as to what the Kw output is of either starter looking at the micro fiche. Assuming that the compression ratio on the 1290 is more (no data shown from the KTM website to know for sure), 1290 would be requiring a little more torque to spin the engine over.

    Also the battery cable specs on the 1290Duke show 16mm, where the 1190 doesn't indicate diameter, not sure if they are the same diameter, but since its called out on the 1290 "leads" me to think- thicker.

    So- is the starter ( and cables) on the 1190ADV is under rated, or does it just barely meet the spec and then in cold weather drag & fail?

    This might be one more item to review and add to the list for those on their letter writing campaigns.
    #13
  14. Bluesilver

    Bluesilver Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2013
    Oddometer:
    783
    Location:
    South Africa

    I sent the vid to the local KTM dealer AND KTMSA, not holding my breath but seen as I notified them and KTMSA, I will wait a week then I'll start bitching every single day with emails, phone calls...forums till this nonsense is sorted.

    A new 1290 Starter is around R5000 here, I'm not going to pay for what is definitely a KTM design fault, yet again and the sh..t list on the 1190's is shocking, also just checked the 1290 forum, they having loads of quality issues like we have so how the HELL KTM can claim to sell "tested" in the harshest environment bikes I do not know, hope the USA market HAMMERS the CRAP out of them that is the only time KTM Austria seem to react.:clap
    #14
  15. Womble_CH

    Womble_CH dribbling baboon

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Oddometer:
    352
    Location:
    French Alps
    Isolated cases ??? Come on guys.

    There have been many cases in Europe and anywhere else where its getting fresh in Winter...

    It was one point among others of the french petition, which earned 1 year warranty extension to world-wide MY2013 owners.

    KTM HQ admitted a faulty battery series related to those cases, but thats certainly not the end of the story, because even those who put 3rd party batteries or the LiPo battery still had the issue.

    The 1290 starter certainly helps, but KTM HQ claims that it could harm the 1190 electronics (yet they agreed to fit them in 'isolated cases').

    (...the price of the starter is roughly 600$ and fitting it takes a few hours because the engine needs to be tilted...so if you can convince owners that switching some cables or the battery does the job...)

    The problem is at best delayed because it got warm in the northern hemisphere.
    #15
  16. ebrew

    ebrew Motorcycle A.D.D.

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,472
    Location:
    Denver colo
    Person to bitch loudly at Ktm USA as it's crazy they way this company treats it's customers. I have called them and told them how disappointing the few issues are with this bike. I called about the cold start months ago ( when it was cold and it will get cold again) and was told they knew nothing about it and was told to put thinner oil in the bike. That's the same answer months later when I asked about the air box problem

    So what is the USA public going to do?
    #16
  17. RobZorba

    RobZorba Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Oddometer:
    765
    Location:
    Albania
    The link I posted earlier was the heavy duty battery cables. KTM Greece supplied and fitted them when the bike went for its 1000 km service and told me the factory were issuing these to everyone as "the solution" for starting problems. Clearly KTM USA do not know about this, which surprises me since it is policy throughout Europe.

    There have never been starting problems on my '1190, but then again it's never colder than freezing point in Greece, and only for a day or so each year.
    #17
  18. GSD

    GSD Woof

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Oddometer:
    19
    Location:
    Hellas
    Not the case for every model. My 2013 had the same problem and I had the same feelings :kboomHad to load it on the tow-track twice and jump-start it twice more. I asked about the cables and they told me they weren't for mine. My 1190 had an issue with the battery. The gel inside was freezing and wouldn't give the 'right" amperes, so they put a new battery with electrolytes. Since then I had no trouble at all:freaky
    #18
  19. RobZorba

    RobZorba Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Oddometer:
    765
    Location:
    Albania
    Great to hear from you GSD, and glad your '2013 bike has been sorted. Maybe I'll see you on the mainland some time?
    #19
  20. Wawlia

    Wawlia n00b

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2014
    Oddometer:
    4
    My 2014 also has this "laboured" turn-over on start-up - from new - hot or cold it's the same.
    One morning there is just not going to be enough juice to crank those big pistons over fast enough.
    Heading into winter that is sure to be sooner than later - or on the next trip with my GS mounted buddies - can already hear it...........

    Had a lot of problems with gel batteries on previous bikes - when they quite they do so with immediate effect - unlike others that seem to give you some/ample warming.

    Thicker cables would seem to be a good option here.

    What does it take to bump start this bike - cant imagine it would be a walk in the park!!!!!
    #20