15 minute idle clarification....

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by Jnxdrcg, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. crashmaster

    crashmaster ow, my balls!

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    From the FWIW dept., just to muddy up the waters, here's what I got from my mech. He talks about a 10 min instead of 15 minute idle after ECU reset........

    "The "10" min. process comes from KTM's Technical Services group. Your are correct that the manual calls for "15" min. This was the process first applied when the F.I. bikes came to market. During the first year of introduction, the service schools started teaching the "10" min. process. Bottom line, when watching the ECU on the remote computer you can see that the ECU settles down around the "5" min. mark. Very little to no change occures after this point."
    #21
  2. 9nine0

    9nine0 Formally NineFive0 V2

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    You don’t have to reset the sensors but I found it helps tremendously in certain applications.

    I.E. - If you had changed a sensor position like the TPS, and now it reads 0.64v where before it read 0.58v @ closed throttle, now the bike will most likely stall at idle RPM because the ECU was calibrated to base its throttle opening off of closed TPS voltage. Or done a valve adjustment and now the vacuum is greater in a cylinder – the map sensor stored parameters from before the valve adj. wont match up at first, and the bike may stumble or hesitate for a variable amount of time. Same applies when changing out a dirty air filter or rebuilding a worn out engine. The ECU will learn what the demands are and the environmental parameters but it has its limits on how quickly it can react to them without creating a runability issue. So what I mean is that it will “Fix itself” but it takes much more ride time than it would to just use the Reset function. So yes the result is the same, but how long are you willing to wait?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    #22
  3. roundtripping

    roundtripping Adventourist

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    Exactly 13 minutes and 27 seconds, if you make me wait any shorter or any longer I will not reset and you will have to start the procedure all over again.
    #23
  4. Mad Kaw Disease

    Mad Kaw Disease Dual Sport Diseased

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    That doesn't jibe with my experience with my bike which is that throttle performance slowly deteriorates over time and/or after a lot of slow traffic riding. I do the reset infrequently, but I still need to do it from time to time to get the smoothest operation even if no maintenance has been performed.

    FWIW I never pay attention to how much longer than 15 minutes it idles as long as it goes 15 and seem to get the same result. Definitely will try the ten minute deal though and see if it's the same.
    #24
  5. Needragger

    Needragger Adventurer

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    To revive and muddy up the waters more....
    Let's say my significant other runs a KTM shop, the owner and mechanics (KTM certified) are all good friends, I have access at will to the KTM diagnostic software for working on our bikes (Superdukes) and have done multiple resets and remaps for our bikes and others at the shop, I attend the KTM dealer meetings with the significant other (I say all this just to make a point that a lot of people in the know, at least supposidly in the know, are all saying the same thing) and, most importantly, directly asked the question on the 15 minute reset to KTM tech. His answer was disconnecting the battery and doing a 15 minute idle doesn't do anything (does your jump drive have a battery to retain it's memory?). You MUST reset the ECU to allow it to relearn it's base settings. I asked this question based upon rumors and such on the superduke forum run out of EU. Is this just smoke to get u in to the dealer and pay to play???

    Think not, I have done, seen all and the ECU reset is the only one IMHO that really works. Usually, once or twice a year, I reset the ECU and do the 15 min run in on our bikes because the settings seem to 'go off' and the bikes may become a bit jerky and will bog on full throttle application on occasion. This works perfectly every time and the bikes run great after the resets (we both run akro maps, she runs slipons and I run a full system). If it's been a while since a reset and we go on a sportride in the mountains her bike is more likely to have issues perhaps because she commutes to and from the shop (and it therefore slowley stubbornly learns only the hot lower altitude conditions?) and I rarely ride the except to sportride....dunno.

    My disclamer is I don't work for KTM, I only pretend to when I hang out at the shop and go to the dealer meetings. This is just the info I've been told and what I have experienced. Your experiences may vary, partly based upon chemicals consumed, or not... If someone out there is actually from KTM tech and didn't just here it from someone...who heard it from someone who heard it from they're mechanic....until then I'll do the ECU reset Hopefully I'm not full of it and blowing funny smelling smoke.
    #25
  6. crashmaster

    crashmaster ow, my balls!

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    Well, the manual states that the ECU reset should be done before the 15 min. idle. FWIW.
    #26
  7. dezracer

    dezracer Been here awhile

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    I,ve always said.....the 15 min. idle is for the most part....is internet BS gone wild. UNLESS....you have the tool.
    #27
  8. Venteuri

    Venteuri I don't give a shit

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    :lol3

    Dino oil?
    #28
  9. fireproof46

    fireproof46 Adventurer

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    The 15 minute idle trick seems to have worked for me. For the past 4,000Km I have had an on and off problem with high idle (4,000RPM) problem after releasing the throttle. I hope it lasts. By the way, I didn't follow the step on disconnecting the battery first.

    FP46
    #29
  10. stimmer6253472

    stimmer6253472 Been here awhile

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    Just my .02 but I personally have never done the 15 min trick and I have always thought my bike was incredibly smooth. I just think each time you start it up from cold you should let it warm up a little maybe 1-3 bars or about 3-5 minutes. I think this isn't a bad idea for anything cars, bikes, whatever. You can hear your throttle calming down during this time (usually the idle is fine after 20-30 seconds). I basically wait about the amount of time it takes to get my jacket, gloves, helmet, etc... on.

    If you haven't driven one go give it a try. You might find no need for what everyone is talking about.

    Jim
    #30
  11. Thule

    Thule Numbskull

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    The 15 minute reset works but you get different results if you do it yourself or have the settings cleared by the dealer before doing it.

    If the you do it on your own, the ECU goes into “Learn” mode which can take up to 500 miles before finally settling in. This is probably why some people have to do frequent resets – the bike runs pretty well with at the reset settings, but as the ECU starts making adjustments performance deteriorates. This is also why you should have a fully run-in ECU before trying to tune the bike with a Power Commander or a TuneBoy. This also jibes with what 9nine0 posted.

    Now, if a dealer clears the ECU and then does the reset, the ECU goes into “Quick Learn” mode and it doesn’t take nearly as long for the ECU to settle into it’s final ‘learned’ settings. Not sure how long it takes though.

    The above is what I have gathered from talking to my KTM tech, my own experiments and lots of reading over on the Super Duke boards, so take it FWIW :1drink
    #31
  12. orange spy

    orange spy diddly squat

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    I just tried it and it does work. Its not a placebo effect. the difference is huge in both idle consistency and smoothness of the ride.
    #32
  13. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

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    You can do a reset with TuneECU. Also, when you load a new map with TuneECU a reset is done by TuneECU which means you should do the 15 minute idle when ever you load a new map. 690's have the 15 minute idle sequence too, but have an additional calibration where you turn the ignition on and smoothly turn the throttle grip from closed to full throttle and back followed by turning the key off. TuneECU works on the 690's, most Triumphs with Kehin ECU as well as several other brands of bikes.
    #33
  14. laramie LC4

    laramie LC4 crash test dummy!

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    i thought this was toatl BS myself but after talking tot he KTM mech, he said it was true and does work. the catch is you have to disconnect the battery and leave the system "dead" without any power for 15 minutes prior to the reset. so the whole process from start to finish is going to take at least 30 minutes.

    laramie :beer
    #34
  15. Steveman

    Steveman Been here awhile

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    sorry, but this is not true. as it is not true that you need to do a ECU reset before the initial idle run. whatever people say who know ktm and ktm mechs and have access to blahblahblah...or are you going to tell me a dead battery resets your ECU. come on...

    cold engine
    bike upright
    enuff fuel
    start it without touching the throttle
    look at your stop watch and turn engine off using ignition key after 15 minutes +59 seconds/ -0 seconds
    done
    if engine dies during initial run, just restart but dont touch throttle and proceed till 15 minutes are reached.

    if you have electronic or semi-electronic throttle (some 690 SMC, SMC R and other 690ies) turn ignition on, roll throttle open, close throttle (dont let it snap back), turn ignition off.
    done

    the whole procedure was available to public from KTM west in Germany as pdf but only in German but has been removed from website.

    doing the initial run in cool temperatures has improved fuel consumption on some bikes, but KTM west did not state why.

    cheers
    steve

    here is the german version for LC8 from KTM Sommer (now KTM west) http://www.produkte24.com/cy/ktm-sommer-948/sommer-special-2008-12696/seite-278-gross.html
    #35
  16. HeatXfer

    HeatXfer Bad knees

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    Here is the above "SOMMER KTM" tip translated to English. I kept the paraphrasing to a minimum; the content is the same (comments are mine).
    990/990 S Summer tip!

    Petrol consumption reduction
    Long term inspections
    Smoother throttle response



    It&#8217;s good if you can solve several problems with one answer. Those who are interested, please keep reading:
    - For those of you who must service your 990cc when no KTM dealer is near.
    - Fuel consumption: If you have unusually low gas mileage, and you think it&#8217;s because of your driving style, you should perform the following procedure.
    - If your idle is too high or too low, this can procedure can help with this issue. Other positive results can be achieved for engines that die when you are stopped or at low RPM or have high idle.
    - If you have to constantly rev the engine during cold winter starts just to keep it running,
    this procedure can help.

    The solution may lie in a new acquisition of parameters
    May sound complicated, but it is not. The low cost is out of proportion to the possible improvement.

    - A new comparison of the acquisition parameters needs to be performed at each inspection or re-mapping.
    - Should the procedure be incomplete or faulty, it must be repeated again 100% accurately or you can take it to the KTM dealer for a faster resolution.
    Prepare for the procedure:
    - The tank must have several gallons of gasoline.
    - The procedure is performed outdoors (safety precaution probably).
    - Do it somewhere where it won&#8216;t disturb your neighbors. (lol)
    - The vehicle and the owner should be in shadow. (stay cool, man)
    - A clock must be present
    - The bike must be on the center stand.

    * We, SUMMER KTM, did it indoors on a dyno in our workshop in Oberhausen. The advantage is that we can keep the room cool and test the bike right there.


    What is to be done:
    - The 990 is on the center stand and vertical.
    - The engine must be cold,.
    - It should be cool when performing the procedure. (Don&#8216;t do it in July at noon in Tucson).
    - Start the bike and let it idle for 15 minutes.
    - Do not touch the bike while it&#8217;s idling: Do not operate throttle or other functions.
    - Do not let the bike idle for less than 15 minutes or more than 16 minutes.
    - If the bike stops, restart the 15 minutes again.

    That's it. But you guys already knew that: this post was just to reassure the doubters.
    #36
  17. ciedema

    ciedema мотоциклист

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    Just a quick one on this point, how are you supposed to shut it down? :rofl
    #37
  18. HeatXfer

    HeatXfer Bad knees

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    "You" aren't: Get your neighbor to do it of course :zilla
    #38
  19. ciedema

    ciedema мотоциклист

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    :rofl
    #39
  20. orange spy

    orange spy diddly squat

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    well apparently it worked for me with clear and distinct positive results without the battery disconnection. I guess there is no catch :cromag

    straight forward process just as steveman and heatXfer's quote described
    #40