15 minute idle clarification....

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by Jnxdrcg, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. laramie LC4

    laramie LC4 crash test dummy!

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    easy there tigers, im just passing along what i was told by the KTM rep. if you don't agree or have proof of something else please post it up. as for the battery disconnect, i have many electronic devices that require a total loss of power to reset, so it's not unheard of for this to be the process. :deal

    laramie :beer
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  2. Hipster

    Hipster Long timer

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    I've done the 15 minute idle trick (didn't disconnect the battery) and it does work however, within a few weeks time it does relearn its bad habits. Don't know if disconnecting the battery would make the improvements longer lasting/ permanent?
    #42
  3. orange spy

    orange spy diddly squat

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    interesting, ... :scratch

    I'll keep you posted (not that it makes any difference :D ),

    however if that happens, wouldn't it mean that there is a problem somewhere else? (mapping, Λ sensor?)

    I have the acra / dna / sas removed combo. However even before the sas removal the problems were there (except idle consistency).
    #43
  4. StevenD

    StevenD Hmmmm, dirt!

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    disconnecting the battery is BS.

    The ecu is disconnected from the battery every time you shut the key to off :rofl.

    Way to many people shouting with no idea what they shout about when it comes to efi.
    #44
  5. knobbyjoe

    knobbyjoe knobbyjoe

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    What is with the mystical 15 minute idle? And yes I’ve done it!

    I'm just saying that if this is a REAL technical process why is this not specifically described in the KTM manual. There should not be any guessing about something important to tuning the engine. I'm thinking that whoever created the ECU programming would make sure that owners had very good instructions.

    Am I wrong? Is there any writing documentation from KTM about a 15-minute idle process to tune the ECU?
    KJ
    #45
  6. laramie LC4

    laramie LC4 crash test dummy!

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    how about sharing the wealth then instead of "shouting" about what we don't know? so far you've added very little to the conversation. please do share. im certainly not saying your wrong, i would just like to know more.

    good question. that is the first place i looked as well with no luck. i have been pouring through the repair manual but nothing yet either.

    another great question. anyone?

    seems all the mech's say so, seems everyone "knows" about it, but i have yet to see anything from ktm to document it.

    laters,

    laramie :beer
    #46
  7. ciedema

    ciedema мотоциклист

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    There is the section from the repair manual quoted on the first page of the thread that talks about it.

    It is mentioned specifically on pages 2-11 (that is what is on the first page of the thread), 2-15 and 9-3 of the 990 engine manual, every time that it needs to be done when resetting the ECU or installing a new EFI Map.

    Also from the way I read the manual it is very possible that this is only to do with calibrating the idle. Page 9-11 talks about this a fix for rough idling.

    If needed I can post the words from the relevant bits.
    #47
  8. knobbyjoe

    knobbyjoe knobbyjoe

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    ciedema and fellow LC8 owners,

    I am responding only to review the 15 min idle documentation mention in the above post. I really don't "no jack" but I can read.

    I just checked the manual on the pages mentioned. This 15 min idle refers to, when using the KTM diagnostic tool. No procedures for doing this as a tune up. This is to reset the idle after engine replacement or maybe the dealer fixing the idle on a bike in the shop with the KTM diagnostic tool.

    I still need convincing that the "15 minute idle" is nothing more than a sugar pill, wishful thinking, as an engine tuning procedure. Don't flame me if I am wrong as I hope I am wrong. But this looks like a shaman throwing bones. Yes I know, when I do the 15 min idle, I always feel like the bike is running better, but is it. :huh

    KJ
    #48
  9. ciedema

    ciedema мотоциклист

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    Yes that is how I read the manual also.

    From page 2-11.
    The engine may have a poor idle behavior if the control unit is not reset.

    From page 9-33
    Error: Poor idling after replacing the engine (EFi only)
    Cause: Control unit was not adapted to the new engine
    Remedy: Delete preset values using the KTM diagnostics tool (see Chapter 3) and allow engine to run in neutral for 15 minutes

    I am going to go out on limb here and suggest that this procedure is to calibrate the airflow sensor, that is all.
    #49
  10. Steveman

    Steveman Been here awhile

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    Many thanks! My English is most probably not good enough to do the job, sorry.

    Steve
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  11. HeatXfer

    HeatXfer Bad knees

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    No no! Don't sell yourself short. Frankly, your post is shorter and more direct; I just posted the translation because a lot of folks were commenting the process was BS.
    #51
  12. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

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    You can use TuneECU to load maps, edit maps, reset the ECU and preform diagnostic tests and calibrations of various controls and sensors. You really do need to do the 15 minute idle after most of these operations. Otherwise operational data which the ECU retains in flash memory may not be valid for the changes being made. I recommend reading TuneECU thread.
    #52
  13. jon6.0

    jon6.0 Been here awhile

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    I'll toss my two cents in. On my Corvette, you disconnect the battery for a while and it will reset the learned fuel trims in the ECU. Known as long term fuel trims. Each ECU is different and the car/bike learns according to its environment, mods, and fuel used. I can see where disconnecting the battery would do something on the KTM. Obviously the dealer would have a diagnostic tool and wouldn't need to disconnect the battery. I can also see where idling it for 15 minutes may somehow put the ECU into a learn mode. Which would explain why things get better initially. Then as time goes on, the ECU is adjusting itself and things may get back to where they were before. Moral of the story is that without a proper tune for your mods, you may not be satisfied with the 15 minute relearn. I'm about to put Termignoni cans from a 998 on my 990. I'll do the 15 minute relearn and see how I like it. If it has undesirable characteristics I will tune the ECU. Right now I get 38-39mpg and would like to keep that the same or better.
    #53
  14. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

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    The KTM diagnostic tool (or TuneECU) must be used to do a reset adaptation before doing the 15 minute idle. TuneECU automatically does a reset adaptation when loading a new map. There is no mention of disconnecting the battery before doing a 15 minute idle in the KTM shop manuals. If this was the method of resetting adaptation, owners manuals would likely mention the need of doing the 15 minute idle after changing batteries.
    #54
  15. orange spy

    orange spy diddly squat

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    You were right after all. After a while it does get back to its old habits. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    What amazed me the most is the fact that after the 15 min trick, this on-off feeling/problem that these guys (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633558) are trying to figure for such a long time and with such an enormous amount of collective time spent, was not there. <o:p></o:p>

    For a while the bike showed me that it is indeed capable of running smooth, unlike what the following very interesting post suggested a while ago: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14419014&postcount=43, however something happens with the adjusting process of the ECU after a while. <o:p></o:p>
    Same thing happens after a long road trip where you are running for more than an hour constantly with more than 4-5K rpm. If you take a break for a while, once you get back on the bike everything runs very smooth. <o:p></o:p>

    If on the other hand you are running within city limits the &#8220;self - correction&#8221; that the ECU does, sends the throttle response all over the place. <o:p></o:p>
    #55