1966 Ducati Monza 250 Project “No Clue”

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by folknride, Dec 25, 2017.

  1. folknride

    folknride Old Adventurer

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    Happy holidays Old’s Coolers!
    My present to me and my 2018 project.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    The good: it’s complete and has 145 compression, rolls, turns, shifts, bounces, no apparent leaks.
    The bad: looks like some minor tank rust, non stock Amal carb (why), ugly bars, non stock front fender, clutch issue (maybe just cable), way too much “patina”, broken multi switch and cobbled toggle switch purpose unknown.
    I won’t get started in earnest for three months (snowbirds), but will do research, learning ( no Ducati experience), and some parts searching.
    As always, any advice, preferably the useful kind, will be much appreciated.



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  2. jas67

    jas67 Long timer

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    Welcome to the bevel singles asylum!

    I love bevel singles! Here's mine!
    [​IMG]IMG_7220 by jay_snyder67, on Flickr

    It looks pretty complete, which is good. I'd say first thing is to assess the carb and ignition system. If it has spark, that's a good start.
    Change oil, connect an aux fuel tank to the carb, tickle it, and give it a kick.

    You'll need a good 6 volt battery, these won't run w/o a battery. A 6 volt/4.5 ah sealed lead acid battery as used in small ride-on toys and emergency lighting is sufficient, and very cheap (like $6): Clicky

    You'll need a couple of "fast-on" terminals attached to your wiring to connect it.

    ADV Inmate, Desmodog has done a couple of bevel single projects, and will, hopefully be along with some good link on the inter webs to info on these (which I could use too, as I bought mine completely, and haven't wrenched on it short of changing the oil, and replacing a leaky valve cover gasket).

    Service manuals are available eBay, I did pick one of those up for about $30 a while back.

    As it has good compression, you should avoid any temptation to remove the cylinder head to get a look inside (use a borescope if you need to).
    The bevel-gears are tricky to set the gear lash/clearance, and bets left to a Ducati bevel gear expert.
    #2
  3. folknride

    folknride Old Adventurer

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    Thanks - An interim battery was going to be my first question for the forum.
    First thing I'll do in April!
    I like the color scheme of your bike. Whatever I do I will stay with that general motif. Is there a blue stripe down the fenders?
    And I don't care what they say - I like the square fender. An inmate offered to trade me - I think I'll take him up on it.
    One of the main reasons I went for this over the 350 Sebring was that it is hopeful I don't have pull the head - I've heard it's tricky.
    But I am wondering how to get the motor looking great. A friend has a vapor blast setup, but I doubt you could do the motor in one piece.
    Ah well - baby steps.
    #3
  4. blaine.hale

    blaine.hale Long timer

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    Sorry to piggy back on your thread, but if anyone has a spare left side toolbox for a monza, reach out to me. I'll chime in on this thread as ya go, as I'm restoring one here!
    #4
  5. folknride

    folknride Old Adventurer

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    No problem. Good luck - I hear they're rare. (I think I might have seen one while surfing E-bay)
    Do you have a build thread - I'd like to follow.
    Very envious of your Matador BTW. It's my dream project.
    #5
  6. jas67

    jas67 Long timer

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    No stripes on my fenders. That doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't supposed to have a blue stripe, but, it seems to be a very well done restoration, so, I'd guess it is likely correct.

    As for getting the motor looking great, I'd wet-sand the side cases of the motor to 1200 grit, and then hand polish with some Mother's Aluminum Polish.

    You can even do it with the cases attached, I've done that with a couple of engines.

    That's how I did the engine cases on this CB350F:
    [​IMG]IMG_1830 by jay_snyder67, on Flickr
    [​IMG]IMG_1867 by jay_snyder67, on Flickr

    That's very cool that your friend has a vapor-blast setup, I'd LOVE to have access to such a setup.
    That's the way to go for cylinder head and cylinder block fins. Keep in mind that vapor blasting does leave a textured finish. If you want the cases to look like mine, then you'll want to go the wet-sand, polish route.
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  7. folknride

    folknride Old Adventurer

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    Nice job on the Honda!
    I’ll polish the cases, and hopefully get the jug to look like Blaine’s.
    [​IMG]


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  8. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Desmo was my dog. RIP big guy.

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    Congrats on the project bike, it should be fun. Here are a couple of disjointed thoughts on these things in general.

    I think I already posted info about the Ducatis Singles book in your thread about the 350. The author also has published a service manual with added notes. Both worth having. In fact a service manual is a must have.

    Another must have IMHO is a parts manual. Having the correct part number helps a lot when searching for a particular bit.

    I don't think Ducati singles are all that tricky to work on. Different, yes? (Or so I've heard, 90% of my motorcycle experience has been with Ducatis) Tricky? Nah. Not with a good manual or two, and access to people who have been there, done that. Ducati LOVES shims. Get used to it. In many cases the original shims will put you right again. For a complete rebuild, patience is a virtue. Measure twice, assemble, measure again, tear apart, reshim, repeat as needed. You'll get there.

    The GREAT news? Ducati also loves socket headed fasteners. It is very rare to find a phillips fastener, JIS(?) or otherwise, on a Ducati. As someone who detests Phillips fasteners that is reason enough to stay loyal to the brand.

    There is a forum dedicated to the singles, motoscrubs.com

    There is a mail list (and facebook group) dedicated to bevels - the bevelheads. Micapeak.com for details (or Facebook).

    The transmorgifier thingie in the movie "The Fly" was supposedly modeled after a Ducati cylinder/head.

    Huge props to people who have the patience to polish the cases. I most certainly do not. I clean them up and hit them with a buffer but no sanding. The finish is cloudy but I'm fine with that. Actually it's the sidecovers that get polished, the cases have a texture to them. I clean cases with aluminum wheel cleaner and a stainless brush. I cleaned the cylinders with bead blasting or scothbright - I put the cylinder in a lathe and spun it (slowly) while I shoved scotchbrite pads between the fins. Not the fastest way to do it but it worked.

    Tool boxes - I'm surprised they are hard to find. I'm pretty sure I ended up basically giving mine away back when I was playing with that stuff. I think I've gotten rid of all my square styled parts, except for a damaged fender or two. At one point a guy in Australia was offering up those headlight shells for the cost of shipping.
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  9. jas67

    jas67 Long timer

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    Yes, the side covers is what I meant when I was referring to polishing.

    Thanks for the tip on motoscrubs, I just sent an email to join!
    #9
  10. folknride

    folknride Old Adventurer

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    Thanks for the Motoscrubs reminder. I had tried to join but it seemed to be off the air. It's working now - new host I guess. I joined the bevel heaven forum - looks good. I'll follow up for sure on the manual suggestion. I looked into Clymer, and they have something, but it's a multi-brand thing with bits of info on many bike os the same period - doesn't look very useful.
    I just got a comment from a fellow owner from the Canadian Vintage group saying he spent $4000 on his 250 motor! Sure hope mine works weith just a bit of TLC!
    #10
  11. folknride

    folknride Old Adventurer

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    What handlebar size?
    I’m in the US for a while and will do some parts buying to save shipping cost.
    I want to put lower and narrower bars on it, and really like the RS90 bars from Flanders that I put on my BMW/5. But they are 22mm.
    Can anyone tell me if the Monza uses 22mm, 7/8, or 1 inch metric bars. Or does it matter?
    I’ll also look for the correct Dellorto carb - any suggestions?


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  12. randingo

    randingo Voted "Class Lounger"

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  13. folknride

    folknride Old Adventurer

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    Your bike looks great. That’s the bar style I’m going for. It sounds like the BMW 22mm one would be .2mm too thin for the control attachments though. I’ll look for 7/8 bars with the same dimensions. Although .2 too skinny is way easier to get around that .2 too fat
    This is the Amal carb that’s on it. I presume it isn’t stock.
    [​IMG]
    Thanks for the help.


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  14. MotoChuck250

    MotoChuck250 Not older than dirt

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    Amal carb is not stock but was a common replacement for the sometimes cantankerous DelLorto SS1 that came with the bike.
    #14
  15. folknride

    folknride Old Adventurer

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    Just starting around the learning curve here. What would you do? Replace old Amal with new stock DelLorto; replace with Amal TT style that has the mixture control; suitable Mikuni - assuming there is one; rebuild the old Amal and get rid of the mixture control lever?
    Why do I get the feeling that the difference between this project and my BMW rebuild will be like the difference between hiring a German project manager and taking an Italian mistress .


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  16. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Desmo was my dog. RIP big guy.

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    Monza's didn't come with SS1s, they came with a UB something or other. I have a PHBHsomethingelse for my 350, kept the stock carb on my 160 and will likely use a stock carb on my 250 if I ever finish it.
    #16
  17. folknride

    folknride Old Adventurer

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    Found it - Dell’orto UBF24BS
    Wonder if they’re available?


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  18. MotoChuck250

    MotoChuck250 Not older than dirt

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    Yeah, you are right. Still it is one of the old remote bowl carbs that caused problems and often got replaced. They can be made to run well but are temperamental.
    #18
  19. folknride

    folknride Old Adventurer

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    I’m pretty sure I’ll be looking for a replacement carb. Wonder what the best one is?


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  20. MotoChuck250

    MotoChuck250 Not older than dirt

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    Well the Amal concentrics were used for the reason that they did a decent job of providing the fuel air mixture needed if they were still in good condition. Worn slides and throttle bodies are the Achilles heel of the Amal. When they are used up they need to be replaced. I would check the diameter of the carb throad against the diameter of the intake port. If you have a 30mm carb and a 24mm intake port that probably won't be optimal.

    You can also see the Motoscrubs thread on the Mikuni VM26G http://www.motoscrubs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2499&p=18651&hilit=Mikuni#p18651 Most folks I have heard form that use the Mikuni find it a good replacement when you get the jetting sorted out.

    I would try the current Amal carb at first to see how it works. One would assume that the current carb ran acceptably at one time.

    The folks at Motoscrubs will have more collective experience with this kind of replacement than the Advrider crowd around here.
    #20