1975 CB360T - Project Phoenix

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by krukster86, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Just as a foreword, this is going to be a very intermittently updated project thread, as I am primarily focused (money and time :D ) on my 1983 BMW R100RT.

    My first foray into wrenching and appreciating the "quirkiness/character" of old bikes came when I fell in love with the "cafe racer" look in 2008. Being young, dumb, and having my first paycheck from my first job, I did what you would think I would do, I bought a ratty barely running 1975 Honda CB360T for a song and decided to make it my cafe project. After a year or two of learning things the hard way and throwing money at it, I had a pretty good runner:

    [​IMG]

    Fast forward a couple years and a few other bikes later, I was going on a ride the first non-snowy day of Spring 2017, and all of a sudden the bike had a loss of power. Pull over and realize that my bike is on fire! I could be mistaken, but the engine seems to have backfired through the carburetor and lit my UNI air filters on fire. A police officer in the area responded to my call and doused the bike with his fire extinguisher.

    [​IMG]

    The damage was done: My frame was singed, wiring harness melted, melted components gooped all over the bike, and carburetors were coated in fire extinguisher powder. I got the bike towed back to my house and it spent the 2017 Chicago riding season tucked in the back of the garage.

    Not sure why, I decided to take another look at the bike today. I decided that if I am going to keep this old bike around, I better do it right this time and do a full rebuild from the bare frame up including a partial engine rebuild (at least the top end to address the oil leakage). I started with disassembly of the easy stuff, and will start to take detailed photos/videos of the nastier stuff.

    [​IMG]

    Initial question: Is it worth it to keep an eye out for a NOS wiring harness, or should I just look for an eBay offering that looks "clean"?
    #1
  2. corsair4360

    corsair4360 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    623
    Location:
    Northern Utah
    NOS will run you more than a clean one. If you going to update any of the electrics, I would modify / update yours if it is in reasonably good shape, you know what its achilles heels are. Wiring harnesses age regardless, unless they are all new or stored in an inert environment.
    #2
  3. DiabloDainese

    DiabloDainese Adventurer

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Oddometer:
    13
    Location:
    Fairhope, AL
    I gave a friend a box of parts that had a wiring harness for a CB360. It was in great condition. The harness had been in a bag for several years. I had gotten ithe extra harness when I bought my bike several years ago. I cafe'd it just like you did, much to my regret! It was more fun and comfortable stock. I sold my it a few years ago but had kept the parts but was moving and I gave away the box with the harness just this year. I emailed him to see if he kept it and sent him this link. Hopefully we can hook you up.
    #3
    krukster86 likes this.
  4. Bigfeet428

    Bigfeet428 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Oddometer:
    107
    I built a new harness for my sons cb360. That, LED bulbs and a modern rectifier/regulator helped the charging system quite a bit. Honda twins has alot of useful info.
    #4
  5. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Corsair, yeah a NOS wiring harness isn't worth the pretty penny if I can find a decent used one for a fraction of the price on eBay.
    Diablo Dainese, that would be awesome.
    Bigfeet428, I used to be a member of HondaTwins back in the day, I guess I should see if my login still works!

    Well today I felt motivated. I took disassembly photos and videos and started cataloging all my removed parts in labeled ziplock bags raided from my wife, to her displeasure. Throughout this process, I was making a mental note of what could be salvaged, and what should be replaced or upgraded with a modern equivalent. I have not decided if I am going to attempt a semi-restoration or keep the "cafe" look. My wallet will make the decision for me!

    Here are some things that I found during the disassembly:
    1. A portion of the wiring harness and the alternator wiring TO the wiring harness is completely scorched, so much so that the connection point between the two melted to a clump of burnt plastic! My alternator was good when I last checked it out two years ago. I will see if I want to just replace the alternator or come up with some DIY wiring.
    [​IMG]

    2. I was running a "Hondaman Ignition" system that (I believe) used the points as a trigger. The unit appears to be burned, and it may be the reason why I was not getting spark.

    3. My refillable battery has lost its vent hose and has been leaking battery acid, and has acid-burned parts of the frame, exhaust and swingarm. In the future, I will pony up for a maintenance free one.

    Next up will be removal of the front end and engine removal. I will have to start shopping around for a frame powdercoater in my area.

    [​IMG]
    #5
  6. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    WOW! Where was Common Motor Collective back in 2008 when I first started working on this bike?!?!? It seems that aftermarket support for these old Hondas has improved dramatically over the past few years. I just dropped $600 for upgraded electric components, gasktets, seals, rebuild kits, and control cables. Oh jeez, they even have reproduction cam chain guides and tensioners? I remember scouring eBay for months looking for a NOS one!

    I have also subscribed to their youtube channel. They have detailed step by step videos on carb rebuilding, tuning, and top end rebuilding for the CB360.
    #6
  7. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Got through the process of removing the front end (forks, triples, and wheel) and the center and rear stands. Almost too easy...

    Popped off the top and bottom steering bearings. They were FILTHY! Luckily I have a set of tapered bearings that I picked up around 5 years ago and never installed! Getting those races out was definitely a challenge. Required the use of a long punch and a hammer to drive out!

    Engine was drained of oil and will be coming out in the next few days.

    I think I found a good powdercoater about an hour away who does little projects like this on the side for not a lot of dough and will be dropping off parts by end of the month once I get every soft part out and at least run some degreaser through the oily parts.
    #7
  8. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Ah....a blank canvas!

    [​IMG]

    Dropped the following off at a powdercoater:
    - Frame
    - Swingarm
    - Footpegs
    - Triple Trees
    - Engine Mounting Brackets
    - Instrument Mounting Brackets
    - Handlebar Clamps
    - Front Brake Calipers

    Used but "clean" alternator and wiring harness were purchased from eBay. I will spend some time in the future cleaning them up with electronics cleaner and dielectric grease.

    I took the engine to the basement workroom and started tearing it down for a top end rebuild. What an oily pig!

    [​IMG]

    The Hondabond that was used for securing the valve cover to the head seems to have been applied incorrectly and was slung all over the valve cover. I will have to carefully peel all that off! Valves looked to be in good condition, I guess I can try an acetone test to see how well they are sealed. Rockers and camshaft lobes looked...OK. I am wondering if it will be worth the expense to send them out to get them re-ground/refinished ($200 not including shipping).

    [​IMG]

    Right and left side engine cases were taken off. Cleaned off the oil filter screen cover, and luckily there wasn't anything there like metal shavings to worry about. I popped open the integral oil filter...let's just say I should have been cleaning that more often! I had to scrape off old gunk from the inside of the filter with a pick to get it clean.

    Popped the cylinders off and inspected the pistons. Pistons had some weird scuffs on them.
    [​IMG]
    Not sure if this is something to be concerned about. Anyway, I got in touch with a local engine rebuilding service and I will have the cylinders measured and honed (or worse, re-bored for oversize pistons) sometime this month or early November.

    I found out that some of my piston rings may have been installed upside down? I know that the rings have a marking to indicate which side is the top. I saw that for some of the rings, it was facing the wrong way! Before I buy a replacement set of rings, I will confirm with the engine shop that I am still within spec for the stock pistons.

    I will probably be replacing the cam chain as well. I will have to devise some method of breaking the existing chain and "trailing" the new one along the old one, so that as I pull the old one out, the new one will wrap around the teeth on the crankshaft.
    #8
  9. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Ordered a chain breaker tool and a new "broken loop" CB360 cam chain with associated "press-fit" master link. I will probably asking around about how to install that master link "to spec" and not create any hot-spots.

    The valvetrain head was pretty cruddy. Just to be thorough, I ordered a new set of valves and got in touch with a guy who will clean up the head, install/cut new valves, and ensure everything is to spec. I will be shipping the new valves and head to him next week/end. Fingers crossed the valve guides are in good condition, replacement guides are not cheap!

    To help with the carburetor tuning (swapping aftermarket for stock CB360 carbs), I decided to test the waters on stock exhaust. Plus my black powdercoated MAC upswept pipes were damaged from the fire and battery acid being spilled on them, which peeled the powder coating right off. NOS mufflers are going for $600 on eBay! Screw that! I found a "weathered" left one and right one for $49 and $70, respectively. Sure they have some pitting and light scratches, but after just a quick wipe with hot water + simple green, they are looking 10x better than the eBay listing photos!

    I decided to go with Renthal Ultra Low street handlebars instead of going back to Café Racer clubman bars. This will elevate the riding position to something a bit more comfortable.
    #9
  10. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Haven't updated in a while.
    - Existing DID cam chain was popped off and I installed the EK replacement. It was a press-fit style master link, so no need to flare/peen the ends of the master link pin.
    - All oil seals have been replaced (other than the final drive which requires splitting the cases)
    - Valve head cover was disassembled for cleaning, and I was able to get rid of all the excess Hondabond that was all over the place
    - Sanded and polished all sorts of metal bits
    - Powdercoated parts should be ready by this weekend. Hopefully I will have time to pick them up.
    - Machinist in Kansas City received my valve head and is working to clean it up and install/cut new valves
    - Machinist in my home town found my cylinders to be out of round and is going to bore them out to 0.25 oversize. Ouch! At least I have a set of ART pistons and piston rings available in 0.25 size from my NOS part hoarding days in 2009.
    - Received the set of used mufflers from eBay. They were actually a bit worse than the photos, but I decided to try the Coca-Cola + Aluminum Foil trick to cleaning up chrome. I was actually blown away by the results!
    Before:
    [​IMG]

    After:
    [​IMG]
    #10
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  11. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Not a bad way to start! Waiting on steering bearings and new brass swingarm bushings before I can say that I have a "roller"

    [​IMG]
    #11
  12. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Jeez it is hard to remember to update this thread when I am heavily invested in my HondaTwins forum!

    Anyway I have some catch up to do on this thread. Sorry I don't have any photos to share, my project has moved from my indoor work room to my garage, which is pretty cluttered right now so there isn't good contrast between my project and the background.

    ENGINE
    - Top end rebuilt with 0.25 oversize pistons and rings (I learned my lesson about why I should go to forum members instead of local machine shops. MAN they drag their feet and charge you for it!!!)
    - Head was restored by a HondaTwins member with new valves installed and lapped
    - Cam chain was replaced with a new "press-fit" master link version
    - Oil seals replaced (except main drive, which requires splitting the cases)
    - Exterior cleaned up to remove decades old buildup of oil and grime
    - Rounded/destroyed exterior screws replaced with SS allen head bolts
    - Carburetors cleaned, inspected, and bench synched (still need to pop out that press-fitted emulsifier)

    FRAME
    - Steering bearings replaced: All Balls Racing lower tapered bearing and a CMSNL ball-bearing upper bearing. My front end is from a 1972 CB450K2, which doesn't jive 100% with my CB360 frame, so this is the weird combo that worked)
    - Front brake master cylinder replaced with a modern reproduction version
    - Clubman style handlebars replaced with a more comfy higher set (Renthal Ultra Low)
    - Bar end mirror tossed in lieu of retro style mirrors
    - Front brake caliper restored with new pads and new seal
    - Upper brake hose ordered to account for higher handlebars/position of master cylinder
    - Fork oil replaced (ewwww!)
    - Crappy plastic swingarm bushings replaced with sexy brass equivalents from Germany
    - Installed sidestand and centerstand with appropriate new springs (what a PITA to install those springs!)
    - Replaced crumbling "banana" grips with new Honda retro grips

    ELECTRICS
    - New modern universal starter solenoid installed
    - Regulator and rectifier were eliminated in lieu of a modern regulator/rectifier combo
    - New to me wiring harness cleaned up and installed
    - New to me stator installed
    - New ignition coils and condenser installed

    Lots more to do, but I need to put the brakes on this project. It is supposed to be a Winter Project, and I seem to be progressing too quickly!
    #12
  13. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Slowing down on the project, over the holidays and I am starting to take all my photos/videos and archiving them. For kicks, I am going to be making some short videos to document my progress. Here is the first, showing the path from initially buying the bike in 2008 up till the fire that started the project...



    ...and here is the second, rebuilding the engine:

    #13
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  14. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Project moved to the garage (it was getting almost too big/heavy to get up the stairs!) and I added on some "bolt on" components. I was hoping to show the installation of the new upper SS brake hose, but USPS messed up the shipping.

    I am planning to move the engine up to the garage and maybe get it mounted to the bike today.
    #14
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  15. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    More videos!

    Engine mounting/installation:
    #15
  16. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Carburetor disassembly, inspection, cleaning, and reassembly:

    #16
  17. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Installation of front brakes hit a snag. My new replacement hose assembly was one of those "screw everything together" kits, and the non-bendable length of fittings + hose couplings was too long for the Renthal Ultra Low bars. I accepted my loss and ordered a standard rubber hose with clamped fittings (much smaller un-bendable lengths). Additionally, I found that my caliper was leaking fluid through the bleeder valve threads, no matter how much I torqued the bleeder valve down. Rather than chase this issue, I went ahead and ordered a new caliper body and new bleeder valve from 4into1. Brushing that aside, I adjusted the tappets (cam chain tension set earlier with engine off the bike), installed the rear brake pedal linkage, drive chain, sprocket cover, clutch cable, and new tachometer cable. Project will probably slow down to a crawl this winter. I am delaying purchasing a new AGM battery and testing the electrics till Spring. If I am bored, I will restore my tank and side cover badges.

    Took advantage of the unseasonably amazing weather yesterday to wheel her out and take a progress photo:
    [​IMG]
    Yes, yes I know "eBay cafe racer seat...ugh :fpalm", however with my handlebar setup, the refurbished stock seat I have is comfy, but sits way too high.
    #17
  18. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Part VI:
    Got the front and rear brakes installed, tachometer cable replaced, and my "new" original Honda CB360 exhaust installed.

    #18
  19. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Part VII:

    Got the tappets (valve clearance) adjusted, drive chain installed, and sprocket cover + clutch cable installed and adjusted:

    #19
  20. krukster86

    krukster86 I am my own shadetree mechanic

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    137
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Pretty chilly weather in Chicagoland. I shifted project work to stuff that I can do in the comfort of the house. Took a crack at restoring the tank and sidecover badges. It may not be NOS perfect, but it is pretty damn good for a "3 footer".

    Before:
    [​IMG]

    After:
    [​IMG]

    Before:
    [​IMG]

    After:
    [​IMG]
    #20
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