1987 Honda Elite CH150 Performance Question

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by turbosneeze, Oct 29, 2006.

  1. THE_SHRUB

    THE_SHRUB Potted plant

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Oddometer:
    105
    Cameron, it sounds like you have a busted CDI. On the elite 150 it is common for the engine to start strong and have full power one time, then you go to run it later that day and it running like crap, then goes back to running well when the CDI is not working properly

    Replace the CDI and I think you will find yout troubles will be solved
    #61
  2. Cameron1977

    Cameron1977 n00b

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    7
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    SOOO tempted to go this route with mine too, it looks great! how do you manage the foot brake though?


    If anyone else has an 87. . . panel sets are available on ebay for 220 +shipping.
    #62
  3. Cameron1977

    Cameron1977 n00b

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    7
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    great, you are probably right. the water part of this is confusing me though.

    has anyone tried these "performance" CDIs on ebay? what does it do, remove a rev limiter or something?

    #63
  4. btcn

    btcn Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2010
    Oddometer:
    2,880
    Location:
    Morgan Hill CA

    Yep, THE_SHRUB nailed it. These CDIs suck and fail ALOT on Elite 150s.

    I do have a high performance No Rev Limit Monster CDI. Paid $39 shipped for it and it works great no problems.

    As for the performance, it really does nothing. Rev limit or not it doesn't matter.

    See, Elite 150s top speed, unlike most bikes are limited by HP, NOT RPM limit. This is part of the low stress engine design. Basically the power curves start to flatten out all of the sudden at higher RPMs. So when your running WOT there is just no power left. Thats why the Elite 150 is so slow after 50 MPH. It will slowly pull to 60-65+ MPH, but that takes years and a tailwind plus lessons from professional Moto GP champions on aerodynamics and tucking in! Not to mention a $3,000 super dynamic racing suit+helmet!:lol3

    JEDI 2.0 says the stock CDI Rev Limit doesn't kick in until around 76-80 MPH or something like that.

    I would actually suggest an aftermarket CDI for reliability and longevity over the stock unit, look at Monster Scooter Parts. Great pricing and quick shipping. NOT cheap Chinese CDIs on Ebay though.
    #64
  5. D0N

    D0N Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Oddometer:
    280
    Location:
    upstate NY
    I put a UNI dual layer filter on mine and it seems to have made a difference in the low end power. It sounds better too. :clap

    I will say that every once in while... when I've just started it and it isn't warmed up, the engine is super "doggy". Like it's running at 1/2 power. This always goes away within a few minutes (about a 1/2 mile of riding).

    I'd like to hear more about derestricting the exhaust that JEDI spoke about in this thread. Anyone have pics or a how-to guide?

    Here's a pic I took today.


    [​IMG]
    #65
  6. outofcontrol

    outofcontrol Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Oddometer:
    126
    Location:
    Portlandia
    I know this is an old post, but it brings up my new questions. 70mph! and 80-90 mpg???

    I just filled up for the 3rd time since I bought this scooter and I'm not quite getting the MPG that I thought I'd get.
    51.0 mpg 1st
    50.3 mpg 2nd tank


    On this most recent tank I'm going to adjust the nut behind the bars and see if it's just my right hand causing the damage. I also dumped a little Seafoam in there for this tank. All my riding is around town and suburbia in Portland. Lots of hills, almost zero freeway. I took her out on the freeway once just to see what she'd do; in a tuck after a mile or so I think I saw 60mph. But it's hard to find a stretch of highway that's flat...and long enough.

    The PO had adjusted the brakes too tight and they were dragging, but that was fixed after the first 30 miles. New air filter, plug, carb cleaned twice, new carb-to-head boot, oils, coolant, etc.

    I did fix a gas leak coming from the fuel gauge sender unit, but was only when the tank was super full, and that was on the first tank. I do smell gas in the garage after the scoot is hot, but it's so faint, and there's no fuel dripping from it.

    Otherwise she purrs like a kitten, and goes just fine. I honestly don't want more speed, I have a Liter bike for that. Plus I don't want to be tempted to take it on the freeway. I just want her to run perfectly... and get 70MPG! That was the whole idea (excuse) behind this scoot anyway.

    Thanks,
    Kevin
    #66
  7. HandKPhil

    HandKPhil Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Oddometer:
    510
    Location:
    Southeast Michigan
    I took my '87 Elite 150 out for a blast around the neighborhood early this morning, before waxing it and putting it up for sale on Craigslist. I've got 4 bikes in the stable now (including my new Majesty), and there's no room left in my garage.

    I average about 75 mpg. from mine, and my top speed is 61-62 mph with my large, 230lb. butt in the saddle.

    [​IMG]
    #67
  8. Warney

    Warney Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Oddometer:
    568
    Location:
    Omaha, Ne
    That 1987 Elite 150 is in amazing condition, details?
    #68
  9. HandKPhil

    HandKPhil Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Oddometer:
    510
    Location:
    Southeast Michigan

    Thanks. I don't want to hijack the original poster's thread with an ad for my bike, so I'll keep it short.

    I bought my '87 about three years ago from the guy who bought the bike originally back in '87. When I got it in was dirty, dusty, and didn't run well, but after cleaning it up and doing the usual tank and carb cleaning, changing fluids, filters, tires, etc. it ran great.

    I totally went through it and had the rear brakes and brake switch replaced by the dealership, added Honda rear shocks from a clean, low-mileage CL360, replaced the rollers, and rode the bike for two summers. I stored the bike properly last fall, and didn't get it out of storage until about a week ago, when a guy at work said he wanted to buy it. Of course after I filled it with gas, re-installed the battery, etc. the guy changed his mind without ever even coming over to look at the bike. After that I figured since I don't use it anymore, it's time to sell.
    #69
  10. outofcontrol

    outofcontrol Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Oddometer:
    126
    Location:
    Portlandia
    I don't think you're really hijacking a thread since the OP's inquiry was made in 2006. There's a lot of good info here that anyone can use. That's a good looking scoot, and I think I read your thread about the renewal of this scoot- another good source of info.

    I mentioned that I could smell gas around my scoot in the garage, and the more I thought about it, that could only mean one thing: it was leaking gas. The 2 most probable things would be the vacuum operated petcock and/or the float valve. So last night I pulled the fuel line and tested the petcock, and it was passing about 1 drop every 10 seconds. Because I removed the broken in-tank screen and replaced it with an in-line filter, I'm guessing some leftover rust particles must have lodged in the petcock diaphragm. I flushed it with fuel and it is holding now. But that means that my float valve is leaking too.

    1 drop every 10 seconds doesn't seem like much, but considering 15,000 drips is a gallon, that's almost a half gallon per day. :wink: I'm going to assume that the float valve was slowing this flow down, but even 1 drop per minute would have a serious effect on the performance of a 2 gallon tank over the course of a week. It also wouldn't leave enough to make a puddle on the ground, but enough to leave a gas smell.

    Even though I thoroughly rinsed the tank after I cleaned it, there is obviously some residual rust granules, and if they got passed through once, they'll pass again.

    I'm going to replace the in-tank screen, and replace the float valve. That should be cheap, and hopefully cure any leaks. A faulty float valve would probably mean a rich fuel condition, also contributing to high fuel consumption. I guess things wear out over 26 years! A little more work, and a couple tanks of gas, and I'll report back. Hopefully the result will be some better MPGs.

    [​IMG]
    #70
  11. Hardguy

    Hardguy Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Oddometer:
    68
    Hey HandKPhil, I'm interested in that Elite 150. Can you private message me the craigslist link to your for sale ad please? Thanks.
    #71
  12. HandKPhil

    HandKPhil Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Oddometer:
    510
    Location:
    Southeast Michigan
    It sold the day after I posted it, to the first guy that looked at it. I got my asking price of $1200 too. Had lots of calls and interest in the bike in the 24 hours that it was for sale. (...probably should have priced it a little higher :wink:)

    Thanks for your interest.
    #72
  13. pradecki

    pradecki n00b

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2012
    Oddometer:
    2
    Location:
    New York
    So I got an old Honda '87 150cc Elite during the summer in exchange for some construction work I did, the scooter didn't run, I rebuilt the carb, cleaned air filter and gas filter, changed oil, and gas, replaced the rear tire, throttle cable, and got a battery for it (spark seems good and plug is pretty new). It runs now (I got it up to 45mph) but I think it might be able to be tuned a bit better and was wondering if any of you would have advice.

    Symptoms: When I start the bike if I haven't ran it for a week then when I give it any throttle it will instantly die, I have to wait about 5 to 10 min for it to warm up and then it runs great. The next time I give it a cold start (later in the day for example), it will start up fine and if I give it throttle it will take off just fine. However when I let off the throttle it will immediately stall out. Its funny because if I just start the bike it idles fine but if I rev the engine up and then bring it back to an idle it stalls when I get to idle. My inkling is that it is running to lean and that I need to adjust the air-to-fuel adjustment screw. When I rebuilt the carb I cleaned the jets because one was plugged but never adjusted the AFR screw because it was still factory plugged and I assumed it was fine. A few times I have also noticed when at mid throttle that the engine (rarely) will seem to miss-fire, just like the engine is quiet and combustion doesn't occur for one stroke. Also I noticed the stalling problem to be more prevalent on cold days (40 deg F) than warm days (80 deg F) which made me think it was too lean because the air is denser on a cold day. Today driving home from school I had to keep giving it throttle at the first few stop signs I came to in order to keep it from stalling. Also I noticed that the idle speed seems to change, sometimes after riding the idle will be real fast, but I have the idle set screw adjusted just fast enough so that the engine sounds smooth when I start it and doesn't sound like its about to stall constantly.

    Does this sound like the bike is running too lean? Should I pull the carb back off, drill out that plug and try adjusting that AFR screw? Or does it sound more like valve adjustment is bad? This is the first scooter I have ever worked on (I'm more of a car guy) so I don't have much experience to know what other culprits could be causing this. Any advice is appreciated.

    One other small thing occasionally when I press the rear-brake pedal the brake doesn't release itself and I have to reach down and press the lever on the rear wheel back so that the rear-brake releases. I assume something needs to be greased or maybe the return spring is fatigued. Anyone else have this problem? A related problem is that I really have to press the rear-brake pedal hard in order to start the bike even though the rear-brake light comes on when tapping the rear brake pedal very lightly, is this a sign that rear brake light switch just needs to be replaced, or is it more likely a sign the rear brake pads are worn or need adjustment?
    #73
  14. outofcontrol

    outofcontrol Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Oddometer:
    126
    Location:
    Portlandia
    First, you should start a new thread because any good answers will get lost in the subject matter of this thread.

    2. I would go back through the Carb and clean out everything. Including the air screw. There could be lacquered fuel completely blocking that circuit. Make sure there aren't any holes in the diaphragm too. How did you clean the plugged jets?

    3. Check the operation of the "bystarter". It's a common culprit and when the part fails, it screws up the whole carb. It's basically an electric choke and as it heats up it closes a fuel circuit that enriches the starting mixture.

    4. replace the intake boot between the carb and the head. Just buy a Chinese replica part for ~$6-9 (it's not something that needs finite tolerance) If it's not leaking now, it will be soon.

    5. Valves are easy to check, but I doubt you have a problem there.

    6. Put a clear in-line fuel filter on the fuel line. I had so much fuel tank rust going down the line that it was messing with my float valve and causing ill carburetion. The little screen in the tank had failed.

    7. You pretty much have to turn the bike upside down to trouble shoot the brake pedal. You're right on track there. Lube the connections, and check/replace the spring.

    8. I think the brake switch and starter interlock switch are two different switches. And yes, I have to floor my brake pedal to start the bike too.

    Good luck,
    Kevin
    #74
  15. Wentwest

    Wentwest How's that work?

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Oddometer:
    731
    Location:
    Northern California
    The answers you got are right, except for the sticky brake. The problem is the shaft at the rear wheel. The brake cable pulls on an arm that rotates a shaft that goes through the rear hub. The shaft gets dirty and sticky from water and old grease. You have to remove the rear wheel, then disconnect the arm from the shaft (note there are a couple of splines missing on the shaft that line up with the arm), then pull the shaft out, clean it up good, clean out the hole, grease it lightly and put it all together again.

    And you almost for certain have a bystarter that isn't working. Check all the electric connections.
    #75
  16. max57

    max57 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Oddometer:
    56
    Location:
    Calais, Vermont
    My CH125 goes 57mph.
    #76
  17. pradecki

    pradecki n00b

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2012
    Oddometer:
    2
    Location:
    New York
    Thanks for the advice guys. I was able to spray some wd-40 where that shaft goes into the rear brake from the outside and then just worked the lever arm back and forth for awhile to get it rotating nice. Brake works well now, I got lucky and never had to take the rear tire off.

    I think this spring time I am going to rebuild that carberator again and maybe buy a new bystarter. When I winterize the bike in a couple weeks here I will check the fuel tank for rust. It feels like the fast idle isn't set right. Now that I have been riding it for a couple weeks I am noticing how if the bike is fully warmed the engine really runs well, like I can go up this steep hill by my house at 35 or 40 mph no problem, but when the engine is cold at wide open throttle I can barely do 25 mph and the bike loves to stall at stop lights. Its weird because when initially rebuilt the carb I tested the bystarter and it warmed up when I applied 12 volts and the little shaft moved as it heated up, so I thought it was working fine.
    #77
  18. max57

    max57 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Oddometer:
    56
    Location:
    Calais, Vermont
    My 84 125 sat for 17 years. I found it necessary to clean out the fuel tank of several cups of rust. Low grade metal of course. Then I replaced the auto fuel valve under the tank, unplugged the tiny slow jet, and replaced the bystarter. It still only starts at 45 degrees and up, but otherwise it runs like new. The slow jet is really important. It can run without it, but having an authentic idle is a big improvement.
    #78
  19. dorus

    dorus n00b

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6
    Location:
    Asheville, N.C.
    Installing mikuni vm26mm carb on my Ch150. Any one done this... jetting recommendation ?[​IMG]
    #79
  20. nerdydaddyo

    nerdydaddyo Adventurer

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Oddometer:
    18
    Location:
    Culpeper VA
    I have a 1985 Honda CH150D that struggles to start from cold, and often will have this low, rough idle that if not maintained by the throttle, will eventually die out. I have warmed the scooter up to completely warm and still have the issue regardless of temp. I have done everything; cleaned the fuel tank, clean carburetor, spark plug, fuel filter, air filter, oil change, new belt, petcock assembly (includes new fuel screen), all vacuum hoses, carburetor mount (the rubber one infamous for failing), breather separator assembly(all new), new muffler gasket, new battery, tested the bystarter for resistance (a perfect 0.5 ohms), all fuses check out OK, and all wiring is intact and free of damage. When I start it, it takes several tries, and once i get it going, it has puffs of white smoke at first while warming up, and maybe its because its just cold outside right now, but once its warmed up, no smoke. When I pull the spark plug, its wet, but the bike only has 870 miles on the odometer. Any help would be greatly appreciated, because as you can see, I have put A LOT of money AND time into fixing this, and my woman is livid with me right now that it STILL cannot be driven. I plan to do a compression test next (waiting on 12mm adapter), but in the meantime, I'm open to suggestions. Thanks.
    #80