1997 R1100GS Driveline diagnose and repair

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by GmanVic, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. GmanVic

    GmanVic Been here awhile

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    Actually, it helps A LOT, MIXR. This is exactly the kind of frank-but-reasoned-opinions that I want to hear. Thanks again!
    #21
  2. GmanVic

    GmanVic Been here awhile

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    Hello inmates. It's been a while since I've posted here so I thought I would scribble a mini-chapter before laying me down to sleep with Mrs
    Gmanvic.

    My GS is in my garage, tranny out and looking eerily like some creature bitten in half by a great white.

    My RT sold last week so i have the $ to invest.

    My used M97 is on its way from SLC, UT thanks to a super nice man who pays attention on ibmwr.org. (see a previous post in this thread). May even arrive this week!

    I ordered a new clutch and all the fixins from A&S. I prefer to give my money to local business, but the clutch kit here in Canada was $800 and A&S was $530. Even factoring in shipping and exchange rates it made sense to import it. (I did give the local dealer the opportunity to counter that price but apparently BMW Canada doesn't have the same buying power as BMW USA so pays more for parts...really!?)

    I have received and watched Ted's video on "how to lube splines on an r1100rt" which was very useful; I wish I had watched it before taking the bike apart. Regardless, it will make reassembly easier.

    I have sone friends who have agreed to help. I am hoping I will be riding in 2 weeks. That may be tricky because I may be away next two weekends...but hey! goals are meant to push us right?!
    #22
  3. rmax

    rmax Been here awhile

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    Thanks for documenting your situation; I just bought a '95 R11GS with 78K for the same reason you did - longegevity and reliability - I'm keeping a list of threads like this for future reference.
    #23
  4. GmanVic

    GmanVic Been here awhile

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    Here are the parts I ordered. Should be the compete list, but if not I will update during assembly.

    From Private Seller:
    Used M97 transmission $400 + $105 to ship

    From Beemer boneyard:
    Guard Dog Moly GD-525 BBgdmoly2oz 1 15.95 Moly Synthetic Spline Lube Grease, 2oz

    Clutch Alignment Tool For BBCPTRK5 1 39.95 All BMW K75/100/1100 and all R850/1100 Bikes (5 Speed Only)


    *******************************************************
    From A&S Cycle (Total: $728.02):

    1. Quantity: 1 21212325876
    SET CLUTCH PARTS
    Price: $532.71

    2. Quantity: 1 61312306202
    NEUTRAL SWITCH
    Price: $67.37

    3. Quantity: 1 21527659112
    PUSH ROD (I was told the old clutch rod wouldn't match the new clutch?)
    Price: $47.77

    4. Quantity: 1 23211230440
    FELT
    Price: $4.87

    5. Quantity: 6 21211454417
    CLUTCH SCREW
    Price: $1.98

    6. Quantity: 6 21211242377
    CLUTCH WASHERS
    Price: $0.89

    7. Quantity: 1 07119963200
    SEAL RING
    Price: $0.89

    8. Quantity: 1 07119963300
    GASKET RING
    Price: $0.89

    9. Quantity: 1 23121340331
    OIL SEAL
    Price: $18.22

    10. Quantity: 1 23122330135
    OIL SEAL
    Price: $16.72

    11. Quantity: 1 23311340363
    SEAL RING
    Price: $18.22

    12. Quantity: 1 23311341836
    O-RING
    Price: $3.14

    ****************************************************
    #24
  5. joe a

    joe a No Map

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    Good for you.....G man.
    I did mine in pretty much the same manner as you at 78,000 and now at 91,000 it's still running great....

    Good luck and have fun...
    #25
  6. GmanVic

    GmanVic Been here awhile

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    Here's what the bike looks like right now. Parts start trickling in tomorrow... Hooray!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #26
  7. GmanVic

    GmanVic Been here awhile

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    Thanks to Jeff and Rob, got the clutch and trans in tonight.
    [​IMG]

    A few pointers and comments:
    - we were not at all clear about the balance marks on the existing flywheel and clutch, and even the new parts, that were well-marked, didn't quite align 120 degrees from each other. Cross your fingers!
    - of course the new clutch is installed with new bolts
    - what I was reading here and elsewhere led me to think that the stock clutch bolts would not be long enough to pull in the spring, that wasn't the case - we managed to get a few threads on, with two people pressing and one person turning screws. I would have done the long bolts and nuts method but I forgot to buy them and we were working late in the evening
    - I couldn't imagine doing this without the clutch alignment tool - it did far more than align, it held everything in place while we bolted it up.
    - trans install was certainly easier with 3 people -- one to lift up the battery box and two to manipulate the transmission on and do up a few bolts. Top bolts first.
    - the mandrills I made to take the trans off definitely helped align stuff while putting it on, too.
    - I hope I moly lubed everything enough but not too much, including clutch spring plate, spline (male and female) and clutch rod. I used a small wire brush to get the moly grease right into the splines. I lubed the rear spline, too, but I think that was premature lubing. :-)
    - oh yeah... I almost forgot that I almost forgot to remove the bolt I put through the flywheel (around 11:00 looking from rear) to stop it from turning while torquing the clutch. Wouldn't THAT be a bummer!

    Hoping to get it all put together this coming weekend, and be riding again soon!
    #27
  8. GmanVic

    GmanVic Been here awhile

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    It's good to have good friends with patience, good ideas and experience, and beer.:freaky

    We got the final drive back in Friday night. We had 3 people working on it most of the evening and wow I couldn't imagine doing it alone.

    Here are some of the gotchas and observations:
    1. I took the transmission off again because I decided I had been a bit too light on the grease on the spline. I thought it better to do it now... I also discovered I had bought a new seal for the transmission input shaft, so installed that, and a cute little bit of felt around the clutch shaft. I'm sure it all would have been fine, but decided better safe than sorry at this point.

    2. Had a bit of a challenge installing the final drive. It wasn't clear in the manuals, or Ted's video, on the order of installation, but NEXT TIME, I think it will be much easier to install the Drive Shaft before the Housing. We put on the housing and then fishing the drive shaft onto the output shaft was a bit tricky. We got it on, but it wasn't on all the way (didn't quite "Snap" into place, so it the FD was about 1/2" out of getting the pivot bolts in)

    2.5 I didn't want to take the housing off again (loctite and all that) so managed to get the drive-shaft on through the housing, and then used a block of wood and 6 hands to tap it on until it clicked.

    3. The FD had gone on easily the first time, now we had a bugger of it. It turned out it was just a case of getting the smooth "leader" in (using a 3 people and a screwdriver it's not hard) and then, with the trans in gear and two Wheel Bolts in the FD, turn the FD until the splines lined up. (As per the PDF doc "BMW R1100GS: Final Drive Splines Lube") Then it slides right on. We tapped it with a rubber mallet to slide it on.

    4. In the process of installing the bearing carrier bolts, the left, rear bolt (one of the ones that take a huge lock-nut, kept winding and winding in, not leaving any threads for the lock-nut to go onto. Upon inspection, I realized I was missing a bearing race cone thingy on the rear inside pivot bolt. Looked through my parts and checked with my cleaning crew and opened another beer...and finally found it where the FD parts had been sitting...on my garage floor. Cleaned and greased it and...took off the FD again to install it. This time it was easy due to the experience above. :clap
    Oh, and I did have a challenge because I didn't have a way to put a 1/2 drive socket (the 22mm Hex used for the bearing carriers) onto a 1/4 drive ratchet (my small torque wrench for the 7 Nm needed). I used the large torque wrench but it was (just) off the bottom of the scale and I probably should have just done it hand tight.

    That was about 3.5 hours - I know it should have been half that, but it did include taking the trans off and back on again, once, and the FD 3 times...and a whole lotta learning!

    Now we are planning a ride next weekend, so I better stop typing and get back to attaching bits. I've just re-watched the last half of Ted's R1100RT spline lube video - man that's useful - and start a list of what remains to be done so I do it in the right order:
    I think it will be:
    - torque arm
    - ABS Sensor
    - Rear wheel
    - Brake
    - Airbox
    - starter
    - frame
    - battery box / battery
    - Etc: gadgets and goodies galore.
    - Tank
    - Test ride slowly.
    #28
  9. GmanVic

    GmanVic Been here awhile

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    Oh, and I should add:
    - Put oil in the transmisison :puke1
    - Adjust the new clutch
    - After a few days, re-check all torques

    Got the rear wheel on yesterday - starting to look like a bike again.:eek1
    #29
  10. GmanVic

    GmanVic Been here awhile

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    Okey dokey. Chipping away at it here, flyin' solo. Just spent about 45 minutes trying to install the little clip that hold the large rubber breather tube (?) to the top right of the airbox. Finally swapped the stock clip for a worm clamp and that was way way easier...:D

    So, I got the airbox in, but runninginto some "order of assembly issues" for sure.

    In order to install the airbox I had to drop the shock (it was still attached to the lower swingarm).

    Now, to install the shock it looks like I will have to remove the rear wheel again. 2 steps forward, one step back.

    If anybody is reading this...any other ordering things I should pay attention to? Brake lines, footpegs, starter, battery, a million wires...

    A bit daunting, but it is, in fact, taking shape. Hope to be test-riding before Friday and ride-riding on the weekend.:clap
    #30
  11. GmanVic

    GmanVic Been here awhile

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    ...like the gear indicator sensor... :(:

    ... looks like I am taking it apart again...(((sigh)))

    I feel like an idiot, but I can't really just stop at this point. The good news is that I know pretty much what to do...practice makes perfect!
    #31
  12. GmanVic

    GmanVic Been here awhile

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    Okay if I have to take it apart again I guess I better do it BETTER than last time...at this point I definitely do not want to strip anything so I have rigged up a tool where I "made do and took my chances" last time. Specifically, the Final Drive Housing Pivots, on the inside; the ones with the big locknuts. Ideally you are supposed to hold the inner 12mm Allen while loosening or tightening the 30mm nut. I don't have a 30mm wrench, so here's what I made up:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Not perfect of course -- can't get my 1/2 drive torque wrench in at the same time...but I think it will work.
    #32
  13. rutard

    rutard Magnanimous Madcap

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    I'm in the midst of similar work (currently paused while I sort out a tranny). Your thread has been helpful, so thanks! :clap

    Is there any reason you couldn't use a spanner / box-wrench to hold the retaining bolt while you torque the bearing bolt? This would allow access with your torque wrench.

    I've thrown up some draft check-lists for the rear end of the R1100GS. I will be adding images, reinstallation notes, and tools-required lists when it goes back together. Lemme know if you've got any suggestions or edits.

    Removing Final Drive
    Removing Swing Arm
    Lifting Rear End
    #33
  14. GmanVic

    GmanVic Been here awhile

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    Thanks rutard. It looks like I am partly documenting for others, partly make lists for myself, and partly seeking psychoanalysis! :D

    Your check-lists look fantastic! That's exactly the kind of thing that works well for me!

    As for your question "Is there any reason you couldn't use a spanner / box-wrench to hold the retaining bolt while you torque the bearing bolt? This would allow access with your torque wrench." a 30mm box wrench would work well, for all except the torquing - the 12mm hex pivot pin goes in first and is torqued against the bearing to 7 Nm, then the 30mm nut needs to be torqued to 150 Nm, without the pivot pin moving. So either way, with the tool I concocted, or with a wrench, the pivot pin risks moving. (Unless there is such a thing as a box-end torque wrench?)...apparently there is! http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0218345 - but in my quick search I didn't find 30mm options! [EDIT: Use crow foot from Twilight Error: McMaster-Carr P/N 5832A23 - $26. Its an SAE tool - 1 3/16, but it fits the 30mm locknut beautifully. When I remove the FD, I use heat and a 30mm impact socket in my gun to zap it loose, then when I'm reassembling, the crow foot head goes on my torque wrench and I hold the adjusting bolt with a breaker bar/12mm allen socket.]

    And here are some other work-arounds: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-128741.html

    My Clymer manual says to put a mark on the pivot pin, once it is torqued, so when torquing the nut you can check the mark from time to time to see if the pivot pin is turning too. I am planning to:
    1. Loctite and torque the pivot pin,
    2. Let the loctite set for a day
    3. Mark the pivot pin
    4. Torque the nut, keeping an eye on the pivot pin mark.
    #34
  15. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Love those blue pipes

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    For reference - You can buy sets of large hex key adapters in most auto parts stores, labelled as brake caliper wrenches or something like that. I spent a whole frustrating day visiting tool stores looking for a 12mm hex key adapter and being told they could order one for $30-$60, before I found the set on the shelf at O'Reilly for $10.
    #35
  16. GmanVic

    GmanVic Been here awhile

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    Okay things are coming together with some struggles:
    - don't forget to install the gear indicator switch (on top of the neutral switch). I read somewhere you can get at this with taking off the axle and FD. Don't believe it.
    - careful to not to let the gear indicator switch to come apart. Mine did and there are three tiny spring with three tiny metal pickups. I lost one of the bits of metal. I put it back together with what I had but have no idea how it will work, if at all.
    - turns out I had a new seal for under the new neutral switch, so that's in there, along with the o-ring.
    - rubber boot at the front of the rear axle housing was hard to get on this time.
    - helluva time getting the screws back into the sides of the electrical box. Finally left out the metal spacers in for now. Will revisit in a few weeks. Probably would have been better to reinstall the electrical box before dropping the frame and bolting it down

    Again, so important to have help. Some stuff takes 6 hands.

    QUESTION: There's one big electrical plug, I think it's got 4 or 5 round prongs in it and I can't recall where it goes. Apparently I thought it was important so I took a "look at this" picture while disassembling...

    Does anybody know what this is and/or what it plugs into?

    [​IMG]
    #36
  17. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Love those blue pipes

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    You sir are a sucker for punishment! You KNOW you'll be taking it apart again when the gear position indicator doesn't work properly don't you?

    Sorry I can't remember what the plug is for or where it goes. Good luck!
    #37
  18. GmanVic

    GmanVic Been here awhile

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    Haha! Yes I do know I will be taking it apart again...that was already the plan since I installed a used trans and intend to rebuild the current one and swap it in the future. Should be easy by then!
    #38
  19. UncleMark

    UncleMark Been here awhile

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    I think that's the O2 sensor, it should have a mating connector up around the alternator...
    #39
  20. rutard

    rutard Magnanimous Madcap

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    Uncle Mark is correct. Just looked. It's the O2 sensor. One lead is connected to the exhaust. The other is on the RHS of the bike directly under the Motronic Computer. It should be affixed w. 2 zip-ties to the aft RHS headstock brace (just above and to the left of where your finger is pointing). Lemme know if you want a pic.
    #40