1999 Beta Alp questions

Discussion in 'Trials' started by CodeMonkee, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. CodeMonkee

    CodeMonkee Geek Adventurer

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    Noticed a local '99 Beta Alp (250cc), licensed for the street, for sale for $2K

    Q1: Assuming variables like condition/etc., can these be worth $2k or near it?

    I know they are rare, just wondering if this is scalping or not.

    Q2: Can a person who is 6'6" 250# fit on this bike?

    Thanks.
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  2. CodeMonkee

    CodeMonkee Geek Adventurer

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    Yeah, I understand it is a trials bike with a larger seat and tank. I have my Hussy for sitting down, just wondering about it for trail riding, practicing and for a second bike to putz around on.
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  3. CodeMonkee

    CodeMonkee Geek Adventurer

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    Nobody else has any feedback?

    Don't know why the one post was nuked. :huh
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  4. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

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    Code,

    I have to hope my memory is good enough, but the older alps where 2 strokes ones, more close to a trials bike (bigger seat and tank).

    The geometry of the frame is more close to that of a trials bike. Trials bikes are lightweight bikes, that have twitchy quick steering to enable what and how we ride at a snails pace. This could affect how you ride an alp, compared to MX based bikes at trail riding speeds.

    I would have to say, myself being a life long trials rider, I would rather have the alp, than for me to go buy some other MX/enduro bike built & sold in USA (Ossa and Freeride not included since they are not A: "something I could buy cheap/used" are they even building them yet...) to go trail exploring, say in New Mexico/Colorado/Wyoming. Assuming that my goal was to see how far I could go down single tracks, not "how fast," if you see my point.

    I want badly to goto Utah, and try the 5MOH, beta alp is what I might want to take yet looking at the pictures I have seen, Ill have my trials bike instead, some fun looking terrain. I dont care, Ill stay closer to camp, lol.

    Anyway, back on track here...
    How "trials" capable is it? I want you to be sure to read this very carefully: In the hands of a talanted (Expert/Master) rider I have seen a similiar themed/designed bike (96 pampera by Gasgas) clean a section that I consistantly took a point in, me being a decent "intermediate" class rider.

    But, I caution you as a "newbie" to the sport of trials (if that would be the case) that the bike is NOT suited well for trials, IMHO. Sure better than a any MX/enduro bike, just think if you will actually want to become trials riding fool like some of us on here, get a real trials bike, goto meets (even if you just watch a few times).

    It could make a really fun/light Girlfriend Bike, a step up, if you will from the trail 70 or trail 90 that I have for this purpous.

    When I say well suited, this is coming from the standpoint that the taller seat, and exposed tank, plus weight and most of that kind of thing, will slow a newbie's learning curve significantly, and that is my observation and opinion. If you sit and ride while say your best friend of exactly same "prowess" was on a real trials bike I know he would get more "trialsy" much faster. A lot about trials is about breaking/relearning a lot of what you already "know" about bike control. Sitting down will slow the process, IMHO, so the seat is kinda like a crutch...

    I know others will say I am wrong, and well it is your choice to take whichever opinion you choose.

    I've wanted a Alp or Pampera for 12 years now, especially after watching that guy clean the section on his wife's pampera, that I had one heleuva time cleaning on my 06 gasgas pro trials bike. I figure I would have a lot of "dual purpose" type of fun, if had one.

    your mileage may vary.
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  5. CodeMonkee

    CodeMonkee Geek Adventurer

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    Thanks for the info.

    I have no illusions that this would be something that I would use to compete in Trials except maybe on a beginner basis - and even then a newer dedicated bike would surely be better.

    I doubt I would ride it in a Trials competition except maybe just an informal one. For one thing, I am an uncoordinated klutz - part of having borderline Asperger's - and while I can practice to get better, I will never ride well.

    No, this is just purely for fun. Something of a light trail bike to practice on. Something that is easier to pick up when I invariably drop it. I am a very slow rider - and I am less about roaring around than I am about trying new trails and challenges.

    The Hussy is tall, and heavier than a pure enduro bike. I like it, it would still be good for certain types of off-road riding, an SM and as a snowbike where as much power is needed as possible - but I would also like a lightweight trail bike.

    I've wanted a "crossover" bike for sometime now. The Ossa Explorer might be nice, but it is considerably more expensive being a new bike and I don't think it is sold in the USA yet - maybe Canada - and it will probably never be plate-able here because it is a two stroke.

    The Alp might be nice for a beginner in some ways, but like several people have warned in the past, a Trials or Trials like bike can be a handful too - it is made to be very responsive. I suppose a person could detune it or have a beginner start out in second or up the gearing a bit or a combo of that - not sure. I know Trials bikes are very easy to loft the front with.

    I thought about getting a Christini 300 2WD, but I think I will wait on that.
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  6. empirecycleman

    empirecycleman Adventurer

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    Does anyone know if the Betal Alp or other trials type bike will work/fit/ergonomically in the ball park for a taller rider. My only trials bike experience was briefly trying out and old mid 80's Yamaha 350 trials bike that seemed like it might have fit a bit better if I had my legs and arms shortened. I'm 6'2 and most mx type bikes don't seem to fit that well either but I've learned to compensate and just ride em anyway.
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  7. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

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    This is the "rub" on this, some people fit on these bikes, even big tall guys, even on old TY250's your "tried"...

    From making a big assumption, and knowing people who were over 6ft tall that rode ty's for many years... I believe that The whole "probem" is or can be, the "alien" like feeling that IS how a trials bike is "ridden".

    For one thing, the seat on older trials bikes, were not there to ride the bike with. Sure, you could sit down and ride, we do, to go from section to section, but mostly we JUST DO NOT sit to do ANYTHING else the bike was built to do!

    We ride standing, modern bikes got rid of the seat all together, this is to make the bike more usable in trials competition. with seat gone, and actually frames removed that held any seat at all, makes the bike lighter and more ergonomic for TRIALS... You see that the "seat area" especially on more modern bikes than that yamaha, is shorter than MOST peoples knees, when that leg in on the footpeg peg. this gives you unbelievable reach with the other foot, when you need it...

    Now let me expand on the symantics for a second... It is not foot rest, as people who own other types of motorcycles and newbies might refer to them as... it is like calling a gun a crutch, IMHO totally misleads people as the intended purpose, OK? Footrests, Those are only found on street bikes, where you firmly plant your arse, and ride...

    On some bikes you rest your foot there, on trials bikes your feet are on there all the time (between dabs) But on trials bikes, you sometimes might rest your butt on a seat or seat area, but it is not ergonomic by any means.

    SO, The Alp, has a seat, I imagine it is more ergonomic used for sitting, only for short guys. But that is the point, it is a "standup-able" bike, based on a standup "trials" bike, with a seat. I dont have one, saw a few, sat on one (pampera). I would have to say it is shorter person sit down ergonimcally, lots of times refered to as the "girlfriend/wife bike. Based on the fact that the bike standing next to a MX bike, other than an 80cc or less, will be overall, shorter. Can you, a big tall fella get along with that, I think so, just arent going to feel like you would on a big MX machine. Hope maybe that is hard to explain, but you might be able to figure out what I mean.

    but then again this older alp at least, is a bike based on a trials bike, and my trials bike can be adjusted to carry a bigger person with spring collar adjustment (more preload) rear, and spacers in front I assume... but it just is one of those things... IT is a compromise at best, at any job they would be used for, if you know what I am trying to say...

    That rider I posted about in my 1st post in here, I am positive he's taller than 5-10, he was taller than me Im about 5-7. again, though we're used to not being perefctly "Harley/Streetbike comfortable" type of comfortable, riding these, it is more of a semi comfortable sit down comfortable compared to a seatless trials bike. :lol3
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  8. CodeMonkee

    CodeMonkee Geek Adventurer

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    Dirt bikes like Enduros and MX are stand up bikes too. That is how they are meant to be ridden. They do allow for sitting down because they are ridden longer distances than trials bikes and not all of that distance requires standing, whereas a Trials bike you are standing all the time in a competition.

    The reason their seat height is so high is because of rear wheel travel. If you remove the seat you only get a few less inches of height.

    I have no illusions about what an Alp is - I know it is a "mostly" standup bike and even if it wasn't it probably would not be ergonomic for me to do so. It won't be as bad as a Trials bike though.

    Mostly I would want a bike like that for practicing my technique on something that is much lighter and is a bit easier for me to learn and practice on - especially at slower speeds. I've been riding for decades, and I started out off-road, but I am a very poor rider so I really need to practice, get in shape and develop some skill and endurance.

    If I get such a bike, I would have to have it re-sprung though - I am way over the target weight for the bike, and as I learned with my Hussy, the proper suspension setup makes a bike difference in how the bike handles.
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  9. Ian640

    Ian640 Been here awhile

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    1999 Beta Alp 250cc? I assume its the 2-stroke.

    IMHO good for:

    1. Technical trails.
    2. The easy route at your local trial.
    3. Getting to work and back if it's no more than a few miles.
    4. The long distance trials we have in the UK (sorry).
    5. Taking home a medal from a 'never get out of second gear' enduro.
    6. Those who like having two or three bikes in one.

    I have a 200cc Alp 4-stroke that is very different but a similar concept. £ or $ per smile it's the best value motorcycle I've ever owned (out of 20-something). If a 250cc 2-stroke Alp was available near me for $2000 and it was in ride away condition, and plate-able or plated, I'd buy it (even with my 34 inch inseam). Then again I like this kind of machine.

    Cheers,

    Ian.
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  10. CodeMonkee

    CodeMonkee Geek Adventurer

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    Okay, so I went to look at it.

    Gonna buy it.

    I am going to have to get used to kick starting again. Seemed a bit cold blooded. The carb might need some adjustment. I am pretty sure I will have to have the suspension re-sprung for my weight.
    #10
  11. CodeMonkee

    CodeMonkee Geek Adventurer

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    What clutch does this use?

    I know Rekluse makes auto-clutches for the later model Betas, is there one that would fit this bike??
    #11
  12. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

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    On a trials bike with hydraulic clutch (which seems to me the alp would have?) your LEFT index finger, is your rekluse clutch. practice practice saves you whatever the kit costs, and you said you wanted some "trials" experience, :evil
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  13. CodeMonkee

    CodeMonkee Geek Adventurer

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    But but - I want to cheat! :evil

    I love the Rekluse on my Husaberg.
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  14. motojunky

    motojunky Professional Idiot

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    I understand that your primary goal is not competition and I think that's great. Fun is fun, no matter how you have it. That said, if you intend to do any "trialsy" riding, you will want a proper clutch. The auto clutch will be a disadvantage.

    I also said I didn't care about competition and only wanted to play on my trials bike. After a while I entered a competition, just for fun. And I promptly got hooked and rode the rest of the series. :D The first event for my 2nd year of riding is in ~4 weeks.
    #14
  15. WetSideRider

    WetSideRider Long timer

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    I've got a 'berg with a Rekluse and a Montesa 4RT.

    I suggest you ride the little guy without an autoclutch for a while, then decide. Not being able to sit and paddle will take away much of the charm of an autoclutch, and the whole issue of rear freewheeling in undesireable situations will rear it's head, ugly or not.

    I'll speculate that getting a Rekluse for that bike is unlikely. They don't do much with boutique brands, and the older the bike, the less likely. Somebody might be able to say whether a more modern kit "might" fit, but you'll be on your own. I went through that with an '09 Husky TE250, and chickened out. I got a deal on a 390 instead (the whole bike, not just the autoclutch :evil).

    This guy will probably build one for you if you send in the basket, clutch parts, and a wallet full of dough.

    http://www.efmautoclutch.com/

    Very cool bike, BTW.
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  16. Rockcat

    Rockcat LDA

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    You might give Rekluse a call. They made the z-start pro for KTM 2 strokes in the same year and one may just fit.
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  17. CodeMonkee

    CodeMonkee Geek Adventurer

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    I have not had the problem with freewheeling with the Rekluse in my Hussy. Sure, if you stop and then roll on, then the clutch doesn't engage without blipping the throttle.

    It's too bad Revlock decided to quit making clutches - they had one that was adjustable on the fly.

    Yeah, I have seen EFM, and if I decide I really want one I may ping them on it. But was just weighing the options first.
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  18. Pro_Marinero

    Pro_Marinero Carbon Sasquatch

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    Monkee you sound a lot like my dad. He had the same conundrum as you; long-time rider, wasn't happy with his off-road skills, wanted something easier to handle and keep up on the gnarly trails I like to ride.

    He had started with a KLX650R - Kawi's answer to the BRP back when the BRP was still just a XR600R. Great desert race bike, horrible on trails. Moved to a KLX300R. I had purchased a Husaberg FX470 with a Rekluse and loved it. He tried it and wanted one too, but the only answer was EFM. It never worked right compared to a Rekluse.

    Then I bought a GG TXT270 and started doing the really nasty stuff. He tried my bike and really realized how much he needed to work on the basics in the backyard to get better, but he wanted one with a seat to ride trails with me. I had previously had a Reflex and he knew that one sucked. He looked at all kinds of ebay seats for trials bikes, even considered Alps and Pamperas. In the end he bought a very clean TXT280 and I told him if he wanted to ride with me he was going to have to suck it up and stand. :lol3 We now do 10-20 mile rides with extra fuel and he's fine with it. Tired yes, but still realizes how much the seat would be in the way on these rides. Seats only really make a difference on road rides (we both have plated TXT's but only ride them on gravel FS roads) or long downhill stretches. He simply takes more breaks and we talk more on the trail. :thumb

    The only seat I would get would be the Buttrest simply because I can take it off and put it in the backpack or flip it around on the fender. It's also in a much better spot up on the subframe than the "valley" type seat which is what the Alp and Reflex have. I'm also 6-6 and about the same weight. Riding my Reflex seat was a joke. My knees were completely useless for weighting pegs as they were so far up. I put 6" rise bars on the new TXT321 and a heavier rear spring. It's now perfect and very comfortable to ride for long periods of time.

    Really the idea of "I have to stand and there's not seat?" is more of a mental block. My dad is always uncomfortable for the first 500 yards and then fine after that. He feels like he's not going to make it, but your brain gets over that pretty quick. Congrats on the Alp and you will easily sell it for what you paid, but I think you're going to quickly find its limits. Also, an autoclutch on a trials bike is a mistake. Pops was thinking the same thing, but I had him go out and ride his bike over a few obstacles and note where the RPMs were. He realized that he would be in the engage/disengage point a lot of the time and trying to time it would be a big problem. You will be much happier with a clutch. They are butter-smooth to operate. This is coming from a self-proclaimed lazy rider with a Rekluse and left-hand rear brake.

    You will find that on a true trials bike you will learn faster and tackle far harder trails with ease, plus your Berg riding will improve as well. If you're trying to do it on something like an Alp or Reflex, you will be fighting the seat and won't learn the fine points of turning and letting the bike lean under you.

    Not me, but I know the guy that took the pic. It explains how to make a good tight turn on a hill. This is the essence of trials riding and will spill over into any riding - controlling the bike underneath you and always staying neutral. Not having a seat makes it much easier to learn.

    [​IMG]
    #18
  19. jjohn82

    jjohn82 Been here awhile

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    Revloc didn't decide...someting happened between them and Rekluse, and they are gone. Good or bad I don't know. But take a look at the new EXP 2.0 from Rekluse, its the dyna ring for sure.
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  20. jjohn82

    jjohn82 Been here awhile

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    Can you tell a little more about this butt rest seat and maybe post a picture of the 6" bar risers? Please. I have a Rox 2" riser set on my 2001 Sherco 2.5 and would like a little more room. How does it affect the steering and balance at that height?

    Thanks in advance
    #20