$2000 spent at BMW dealer, bike still not running

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by ebohnet1, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. BobLoblaw

    BobLoblaw Comfortably Numb

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,507
    not a chance in hell. No one will ever be able to prove to a judge when, how or who broke the tab. The OP is probably correct in his belief that some ignorant mechanic broke the tab, but he can't prove it.

    I just replaced my own hall sensor and you really do need to be totally ignorant of this particular model or inattentive at best to break the tab.

    Glad to hear you finally got the problem solved.
  2. Emoto

    Emoto Sure, why not?

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Oddometer:
    20,836
    Location:
    SE Mass
    :thumb They've always been nice when I have stropped in there.
  3. scooteraug02

    scooteraug02 Dog Rancher

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    4,555
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I'm beginning to think BMW wants you to buy a new machine every 3 years, do that and they like you. Keep one of their machines for 12 years and you are of no concern to them. In their mind ebohnet1 should have bought a new BMW while in Canada accumulating $2k in service bills. As long as they are selling new units marketing will take care of replacing those who drop off the BMW boat.
  4. DRONE

    DRONE Dog Chauffeur

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,040
    Location:
    Chambers Bay, WA
    +1 This is not something the two dealers should finger point over. This is the perfect sort of thing to take directly to BMW NA.
  5. justacommuternow

    justacommuternow Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Oddometer:
    154
    30 years ago +/- I was living in San Diego and took my Dodge Dart to a Shell station for some engine work. I can't remember the details, but something wasn't right when I got the car back. I took it to the Dodge dealer, who determined a wire was pinched when the head was reinstalled on the Slant 6, and charged me $200 for the diagnosis and repair. I went back to the Shell station and asked the owner to pay me the $200; he instructed me to leave the property. I went to small claims court, armed with a smudged letter handwritten by a mechanic at the dealer explaining the pinched wire. The Shell station owner didn't show up at court and after the judge read the smudged letter, he awarded me the $200. I went over to the Shell station armed with a very formal court order, and as the owner furiously wrote me a check for the $200, his eyes burrowing through to the back of my head, he seetheningly asked, "Why didn't you come in here and ask me in the first place?" I grabbed the check and ran! :rofl
  6. BTL

    BTL No more snow!!

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Oddometer:
    454
    Location:
    St Albert. Alberta Canada. IBA Member 50093
    Did I miss something...what was the issue prior to Nova Scotia shop breaking tab? Therefore breaking the "tab" made something else impossible to find...I'm really glad its repaired and I'm one of those guys going "whew" that sucks but I am glad it was not me...good on yah for posting your misery.
  7. AntonLargiader

    AntonLargiader Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Oddometer:
    4,741
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    I had almost the exact same situation a few years ago. Someone brought me an 1150 that was dying unexpectedly. He had replaced the HES but the problem persisted. I rode the bike a bunch of times and sometimes it would die until it cooled down but usually it would be fine. Very time-consuming...

    Turns out that during the HES replacement the rotor was installed crooked, and when it heated up I think it would pop into a different position and rub the HES. Then it would cool down and pop back. I replaced the rotor and the newly damaged HES, and everything was fine.

    I think the total was $800-ish. I thought that was a lot for what I did but I just had SO much time in it (some of it sitting somewhere waiting for it to cool down again).
  8. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2004
    Oddometer:
    13,737
    Location:
    The woods and mountains of Alabama
    And Anton's post of his experience only supports the theory, most dealer techs are not all that skilled.

    However the tech was also not skilled at assembly and scrutinizing his own work. Getting the HES rotor on correctly seems a simple task that would be relatively easy to perform properly even if the procedure was not in the lexicon of the tech's previous experience.

    With BMW instructions and a repair manual, most any of us could carry out the repair with success by following the repair procedure documented in the BMW repair manual. I know I could and I've never seen an HES up close and personal.

    This begs the questions;

    1- Had the tech ever performed this repair previously?
    2- Was an official repair manual referenced during the attempted repair? If so, why did the repair not proceed with success and a properly running motorcycle?
    3- And then, when the bike did not run, why wasn't the repair scrutinized and inspected for correctness?

    If a repair manual was in use, what caused the repair to be unsuccessful?

    If a repair manual was not referenced this might be deemed negligence to take the necessary precautions to determine the correct repair process.

    Either way, I believe you may have a case for Small Claims and a strong case for refuting the CC charges.

    Note;

    I just reviewed my BMW Repair Manual. It clearly states in a Caution note to seat the rotor in the groove in the crankshaft and secure it with Loctite. Therefore, this very repair is covered in detail in the BMW repair documents that should be referenced and followed by every official BMW motorcycle repair facility.
  9. CallMeBoog

    CallMeBoog hi functioning idiom

    Joined:
    May 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    7,186
    Location:
    NSLC

    WHOA WHOA WHOA, Hold on there High Pockets!!

    the shop is in New Brunswick, not Nova Scotia.

    carry on.
  10. Beemer Bob

    Beemer Bob Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,230
    Location:
    Beautiful Downtown WV
    I had to replace the HES on my 1100RT. Never having done this I got out my trusty Clymer and started. I question how the timing could be set and not see an interference in the rotor and the HES????? I had to glue the rotor back on also as it had come loose........I used the instructions to make a timing lite also........
  11. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2004
    Oddometer:
    13,737
    Location:
    The woods and mountains of Alabama
    So, what's the difference?
  12. marty hill

    marty hill The Energizer Bunny

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Oddometer:
    4,568
    Location:
    marietta, ga.
    Assume he doesn't want his provence blamed if it was done elsewhere. Why you ask. I'm sure at least one person would decide not to visit beautiful Nova Scotia because of the story. Yes you and I both know that's stupid.
  13. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2004
    Oddometer:
    13,737
    Location:
    The woods and mountains of Alabama
    Marty, my comment was tongue-in-cheek. I was prodding to solicit or invoke a response of the nature you describe...to defend his province.

    Instead, I got nothing...nada, zip. So, I'll not be rushing up to either NB or NS any time soon. But, the province did nothing wrong regarding the motorcycle repairs (or lack thereof). However, if this thing is litigated, the province might be involved...who knows.

    In lieu of travels to NB or NS, I am thinking of a prison visit to Rod Blagojevich to see how his new job (making license plates) is progressing....just a thought.
  14. marty hill

    marty hill The Energizer Bunny

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Oddometer:
    4,568
    Location:
    marietta, ga.
    def, I should have known.:D
  15. MotorradMike

    MotorradMike MIL-TFD-41

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,044
    Location:
    Mallorytown Ontario
    It's important because none of us want to visit the wrong shop if we're stuck.
    The province doesn't really matter.
  16. AntonLargiader

    AntonLargiader Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Oddometer:
    4,741
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    The pulley hides the rotor. If the rotor is stuck to the pulley properly and you feel it slip into position, great. Sometimes it's loose and the tech might not realize it. In my case I could see a sliver of bent metal on one side of the hole when I pulled it to inspect the HES.

    Yeah, a conscientious tech will feel it go together right. But once it's done, it's not a very intuitive thing to check. I remember thinking that I lucked out in a big way finding it.

    I'm not making excuses for anyone, though, and I don't think a shop should be paid for work that doesn't reasonably contribute to a solution. If it needed a HES, so be it. If the tech screwed it up at that point and never found the problem, well, that part wouldn't be billable here and I'd probably be eating some trailer time. But that sort of situation is rare enough that it should be handled on a case by case basis.
  17. Rinty

    Rinty Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Oddometer:
    590
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    It took 18 months to diagnose the intermittent HES problem with my wife's Volvo 740, so the time frame you describe seems very reasonable, if I may say so. :norton

    Two different shops, each having good people, worked on it four separate times.
  18. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2004
    Oddometer:
    13,737
    Location:
    The woods and mountains of Alabama
    Anton, I understand all that but, what if the engine did not start after your HES/rotor install? What would you have done? Let me answer for you (don't you hate it when somebody answers for you), first, you would have checked for a nice fat spark at the plugs right? Next, I believe you would reach for the timing light or the diagnostic tool to determine ignition timing.

    If the engine gets fuel, has compression and spark and turns over, there should be combustion. Take away any of these 3 and, well, we know the answer.

    Instead, from what we have heard, the shop just threw parts at it then the owner called a halt to the madness.

    BTW, there should be an Anton in every city and town where there is a BMW dealer.
  19. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2004
    Oddometer:
    13,737
    Location:
    The woods and mountains of Alabama
    While this is of no consequence to the OP, I once was visiting the dealer where I purchased my GS, Lyle Lovett Motorsports, Stafford, Texas, yes, the Lyle Lovett who was once married to Julia Roberts.

    I would often ride by at lunch time with a bag of burgers and fries for the boys in the repair shop. They often shared experiences with me when I came by for a chat. The owners didn't seem to mined as I was careful not to get in the way of the work.

    The BMW mechanic was staring at a brand new BMW with only a few miles that had been dropped off for a warranty repair. The complaint was, sudden engine shutdown. The tech had exhausted all his thoughts and skills. He turned to me and asked, "Got any ideas"? I said, "Yes, I would check all the connectors dealing with engine management". He replied, "Naw, can't be....this is a brand new bike with less than 100 miles on it".

    A few days later, I was back for a noon visit and noticed the new BMW was gone from the shop. I asked the tech, "What did you find wrong? He turned to his toolbox and took out a brand new u-joint and handed it to me and said, "You may need this one day...I have no use for it. It yours. As for the BMW, it was a bad connector just as you said. Thanks for the tip".

    I still have the new u-joint ready to press into service if it is ever needed. The BMW dealer? Gone...they became a Yamaha dealer and my BMW tech friend? I know not what happened to him.
  20. AntonLargiader

    AntonLargiader Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Oddometer:
    4,741
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    Sounds about right. I'd definitely start with indicators that the HES was accomplishing all of the stuff it needed to. Spark, tach movement, injector pluses, adequate output voltage, etc.