2004 950 Start Problem

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by Big_John, May 25, 2013.

  1. Big_John

    Big_John Ridin 4 the King

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    I need some advice. About a week ago, I start the bike....and ride her in town, running errands...starting and stoping the bike several times. Then I pull up to the house, turn her off......then decide to start her and ride into the garage. The starter button isn't working. The key is on and all electronics seem fine....but no starter turning over. I jimmy the key on and off, flip switches.....flip the side stand up and down......nothing. Then, out of the blue it starts.

    Couple of days of riding around town.....no issues.

    Then I go out with some guys, running dirt roads.....and after an hour of riding with a half dozen starts.....it goes dead. I mean....It won't start. Yeah, we can bump start the bike and it runs great.

    The magic button doesn't work.

    We took the, starter button switch apart and tried to jump the switch.....but nothing.

    I bump started her and rode home.

    Any ideas?



    .......
    #1
  2. gefr

    gefr Life is a trip

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    Could be this?
    #60011058000 at the battery box group.

    <a href="http://s1068.photobucket.com/user/gefrago/media/starter%20relay/pyns_corroded_starter_relay_zps9d3aada4.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u441/gefrago/starter%20relay/pyns_corroded_starter_relay_zps9d3aada4.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo pyns_corroded_starter_relay_zps9d3aada4.jpg"/></a>

    <a href="http://s1068.photobucket.com/user/gefrago/media/starter%20relay/IMG_63351600x1200_zps59bad60d.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u441/gefrago/starter%20relay/IMG_63351600x1200_zps59bad60d.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_63351600x1200_zps59bad60d.jpg"/></a>

    Often gets the external brass connection corroded and broken.


    Cheers.
    #2
  3. Big_John

    Big_John Ridin 4 the King

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    Got a wedding today, but am off on Monday and will tear into her.

    This connections on the solenoid will be the first thing I check.


    ........
    #3
  4. GoNOW

    GoNOW Long timer

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    The starter solenoid is sold as an aftermarket item from Parts Unlimited. Cheaper then the KTM one and most dealers can get it next day.
    #4
  5. jwalters

    jwalters Farkle Proliferator

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    Side stand switch? Probably not if you were able to bump start it, but could be intermittent.
    #5
  6. Big_John

    Big_John Ridin 4 the King

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    Have the bike's skid plated dropped and checked out the solenoid. The connections are beautiful.....nearly new looking and the fuse is just fine.

    When I turn on the key all the electronics seem to work just fine and as I stated earlier, it easily bump starts and runs great.

    Any other ideas?

    Is there a way to place a screw driver across two connections and start?



    Does the 950 have a switch, requiring the clutch to be pulled in? But I guess if it runs on bump starting....then I don't have a safety switch problem.


    .......
    #6
  7. Big_John

    Big_John Ridin 4 the King

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    Took the bike over to a mechanic friend and we started to check wires for current. The solenoid is getting juice, as are the kill and starter switches. The bike will start right up, if we jump the two circuits between the two red wires on the solenoid.....so the starter and wiring to the starter is just fine.

    Supposedly there is a starter relay somewhere in the cowling, so our guess at this point is a bad solenoid or the starter relay in the cowling is bad.

    Anyone encountered such things.......and have advice?


    ........
    #7
  8. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

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    There is a starter relay. I don't know location for an Adventure. It will connect the battery cable from the battery+ to the heavy cable to the starter. The push button sends 12 volts to the relay which closes the relay and completes the circuit from the battery to the starter. Check for 12 volts at the relay when the button is pushed. Note that there is a small terminal at the relay which has 12 volts all the time. It feeds the ignition switch, accessories and all electrical other than the starter. It also sends 12 volts to the starter button. Test for that 1 first. Then for the switched position. Could be button or relay or wiring in between.

    Good luck
    #8
  9. gefr

    gefr Life is a trip

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    Mine died at 40k kms. It was sounding normal, clicking but no contact was made.
    Cheers.
    #9
  10. Big_John

    Big_John Ridin 4 the King

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    I don't get any clicking down at the solenoid. The only clicking I notice is the clutch switch on the actuator up under the top of the cowling.

    Should this tell me something?


    ......
    #10
  11. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

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    Not sure I am following you. I would do my starting in neutral and leave the clutch out of it. When you said that you shorted across the 2 red wires of the solenoid, did you mean the relay--the piece pictured in GEFR's photos? That relay has 3 small connections:

    1. Ground
    2. + to ignition, lights and starter button (Hot all the time)
    3. + back from starter button to close relay (Hot only when button pushed--if not button or wiring is bad)

    And 2 heavy duty battery cable connections:

    4. From battery (hot all the time)
    5. To starter (hot when button pushed and relay closes)

    Jumping across 4 and 5 should start. If not problem is in starter or solenoid.

    If 3 is hot with button pushed and jumping 4 and 5 starts, relay is bad.

    Hope that helps
    #11
  12. Big_John

    Big_John Ridin 4 the King

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    This really helps, as the relay has been suspect all along.

    Can anyone help with the part #......as I want to make sure I order correctly.

    Thanks,
    #12
  13. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

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    60011058000 Appears to be the same as used on the KTM single cylinder dirt bikes. It is located on the side of the battery box.
    #13
  14. gefr

    gefr Life is a trip

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    #14
  15. Big_John

    Big_John Ridin 4 the King

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    There are two starter relays behind the instrument panel, inside the cowling. If you bend down by the front wheel and look up toward the handle bars, you can see both of them on the right side (or left side if you were sitting on the bike).

    Both relays have the same part number: 58411057000. And they retail for $19.95 each.

    I wonder if anyone can explain to me a few questions?

    1. What is each relay responsible for? One on the right? One on the left?

    2. How do I test if one or both of them are bad? (I have heard guys explain that I jump circuits, but since these guys have multiple wires involved, I don't know how to do that.)

    3. I have also heard guys talk about exchanging or switching the two relays. I am not sure what this will accomplish if one or both are bad.

    4. I also had someone tell me to get a test meter (which I have) and do an Ohm test on the circuit. How do I do this and will this test tell me where my problem is?

    Sorry for these questions, but I struggle understanding electricity.
    #15
  16. Labar

    Labar Adventurer

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    Hi,

    my 2011 did exactly the same thing after 3 months or so. The fault was it the starter relay (exactly on the picture few posts above). Nothing looked suspiciously, clear contacts, but it was dead inside. It happened on a one-week trip, so I had to start her with screwdriver shortcutting the contacts next to the relay (works fine) :evil
    Relay replaced and bug solved.

    L.
    #16
  17. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

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    The relay on the battery box is the one you should concentrate on first. The other 2 are part of the "safety" system--side stand/clutch, etc.

    If you need some help troubleshooting, give me a call. I sent you an e mail
    #17
  18. Big_John

    Big_John Ridin 4 the King

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    Doing a trip with the wife for our 25th.....but upon returning.....I may ring you.

    Thanks!
    #18
  19. Big_John

    Big_John Ridin 4 the King

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    Finally, after digging and digging...... I found a wire that had pulled away from a connector. The wire was to run into one of the Safety Starter Relays that are located up under the cowling on the left side.

    Now she runs like a top!!!! Thanks to you all for suggestions and help.


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    #19
  20. DeeGee

    DeeGee I'm a Yorkshireman thanoz

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    After servicing the bike the last couple of days, she now won't start. Dash lights up, fuel pump primes (purring). Thumb the start button and nothing, but a thud followed by clicking (solenoid?). I'm not too hot on electrics, but this is a great help, I'll start checking the starter relay tomorrow and have a go at bridging the relay to see if it works.

    OC. Simply the best. :thumb
    #20