2005 R1200GS Brake Situation

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by BMW JEEP, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. BMW JEEP

    BMW JEEP Been here awhile

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    Howdy all,
    First thread, so be gentle. (BTW, can't do a search from my Droid.)
    Just bought a used '05 from A&S in Sacramento. The bike was a very recent trade-in and other than their cursery trade in eval ride, they had not yet done the service turn-around, so I sort of did the first test ride. Everything was great ( has Ohlins), but it had a very noticable pulsation in the front brake. It has (as I understand it after riding a '01 R1150GS) the servo-assist partially linked ABS. They evaluated it and sent it out to a local guru for spoke re-allignment. Two weeks later, picked it up and it still has a very noticeable pulsation in the front that seems to increase with harder stopping.
    The dealership is inviting me to bring it back for another evaluation, and said they'll help with any existing brake problem.

    So, I'm wondering, if the wheel is straight, could there have been eventual modification of the disc(s) and/or pads by it being ridden with the un-tuned wheel?

    They are going to evaluate.it, but have already suggested that it might just be me not being used to the servo assist. Thought of turning ABS off, but my understanding is that the servos still operate under residual braking.
    Any thoughts if the the brakes have neen irreversibly affected or worn and may need replaced?

    Thanks very much for any info or advise.
    Curt
    #1
  2. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    brake pad material transfers to the rotor surface. You can see the color change. then you have pad rubbing on pad, so no rotor wear. This is normally good, BUT

    if you brake hard and get the rotor hot, and then sit when the pads pressed against the rotor, you can transfer more material at that spot. During a test ride this often happens, after all you are seeing if the brakes are good.

    I put a dial indicator on the rotor and check, if not warped this is what it is.

    The fix is to sand the rotor then do a couple of hard slow downs without stopping the transfer new material.

    different pads do this to different degree.If you brake hard let the tire roll a little bit when you stop and sit with the brakes off. it may not occur for you. Sometimes not easy where you live.

    in that case you might need a different pad brand, and I can not help there, I pace ride and my brakes last forever.

    Rod
    #2
  3. BMW JEEP

    BMW JEEP Been here awhile

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    Thanks very much, Rod. I'll ask about that after they re-evaluate.
    I'not familiar with the technique or concept of 'pace ride'. Would you please elaborate on that? Might be something I need to try to avoid future similar issues.
    Thanks, Curt
    #3
  4. Mudcat

    Mudcat Unregistered

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    I have a 05, pulsation is not normal on them, has nothing to do with the servo or ABS.
    If a front rotor is warped you will have pulsation. But on a 05 I think pulsation is usually caused from a build up of Pad material on the front rotors.
    This can happen from holding the front brake on hard while stopped and the rotors are hot. Lightly sanding the rotors with 100 grit may fix your issue.
    #4
  5. Emoto

    Emoto Sure, why not?

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    This.
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  6. BMW JEEP

    BMW JEEP Been here awhile

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    That's two votes for dirty rotors as a cause, think I'll try the sanding idea before riding a 90 mile round trip and half day sitting sround at the dealership. Thanks.
    #6
  7. LaurelPerryOnLand

    LaurelPerryOnLand Long timer

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    #7
  8. Swinefahrt

    Swinefahrt RooteR

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    Does the bike have wire wheels? I don't believe abs has anything to do with the pulsing or "juddering" as BMW terms it.

    My '07 non-servo abs wire wheel brakes pulsed when new. BMW replaced my original rotors under warranty when the bike had about 7K miles. The replacement rotors started pulsing in about 5K. BMW wouldn't replace them because they were still within spec.

    After the two year warranty ran out on the replacement rotors my dealership admitted that the rotors were out of spec and should be replaced again. The cost of the OEM rotors was twice the cost of Galpher wave rotors which I chose for replacement. I also replaced the BMW pads with Galpher pads.

    I could tell that these new rotors had the slightest pulsing within a few miles of riding. After 5K the rotors began to pulse to the point that I was afraid I would drop the bike in a slow speed turn. I've sanded the rotors and I admit this seems to help but its only temporary. I am diligent to use only the rear brake when stopped for prolong periods so as not to over heat the front wheel rotors causing warping.

    Currently my front wheel is enroute to Woody's Wheel Works. Its possible the hub rotor mounting might need machining to ensure rotor trueness. If the wheel and hub are true the only recourse will be to buy the latest iteration rotors from BMW that will fit my '07 wheels$$$. :cry
    #8
  9. Monsignore

    Monsignore Plunger Boy

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    I, too, have a '05 GS (I'm the 3rd owner). 57,xxx miles. No pulsation from my front brakes.
    #9
  10. Charleetho

    Charleetho Mr. Zoom Zoom

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    My 05 had a pulsing when I used the front brake lever. It turned out to be the rear rotor. Remember, we have linked brakes. I replaced the rotor with a new OEM and all pulsing when away.
    #10
  11. Swinefahrt

    Swinefahrt RooteR

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    Exactly. I know the front brake lever links both front and rear brakes but when I apply only the rear brake there is no pulsing. That leaves the front wheel as the culprit.
    #11
  12. BMW JEEP

    BMW JEEP Been here awhile

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    Thanks to all for your time, thoughts and savy advice. I don't post much, but I do enjoy frequently reading this forum and there is something to glean, a lesson to be learned, or food for future thought in nearly every thread on here.
    Overall, a very congenial and helpful bunch of folks.
    I'll be working with the replies here on this current issue and look forward to a lot of interesting reading as I intend to get going on the recommended 100 GS threads.
    Ride safe, have fun and thanks for being here.
    Curt
    #12
  13. pedalmike

    pedalmike Horizontally Opposed

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    Curt: Check with A&S to make sure there is no service bulletin re: the front rotors for your bike. On my 2007 GS, BMW had a bulletin to replace the the front rotors with newer design pieces that had different dimensions where the rotor attached to the hub and possibly different fasteners. At the time I investigated this re: my bike, BMW would only replace rotors where the customer had a complaint of brake pulsation and the servicing dealer could verify the complaint.

    If you need more info send me a PM. I may still have the service bulletin archived that was sent to me by the parts manager at Irv Seaver BMW in CA.

    Mike
    #13
  14. BMW JEEP

    BMW JEEP Been here awhile

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    Thank you Mike. I'll check into that if the rotor sanding doesn't help. I remember the salesman saying they checked for recall items during prep. But, if the customer must complain (good to know!), and has to bring it up to be addressed, I wouldn't have known to ask without you pointing it out. Thanks!
    #14
  15. BMW JEEP

    BMW JEEP Been here awhile

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    I decided not to try sanding or anything, didn't want to alter it in any way. Just took it back to A&S (I'm traveling and a friend of mine in the A&S Parts Dept. helped take it in). Talked to them yesterday, and they verfied that it was in deed grabbing and promised to make it right rgardless of process or expense.

    Good 'ol A&S, been dealing with them for 5 years and they have always done me right. Will post the final diagnosis and fix when all is done.

    Curt
    #15
  16. BMW JEEP

    BMW JEEP Been here awhile

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    A&S evaluated it and agreed that the pulsing was due to the rotors. They are currently replacing the rotors for me, no charge.
    The curious thing is they said the free fix was to install EBC rotors, but also said they would replace with OEM Rotors, but that would cost me about $250. I looked up the EBC rotors to see if they were some crappy replacement, but they seem to be very popular and tend to be less prone to warping because the outer ring is attached to the mounting hub wth square holes or something.
    Anyone lnow anything or have any experience with EBC brake parts and their quality relative to the OEM rotors. I told them to go ahead with the EBC's. Was that a wise decision?
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  17. Mudcat

    Mudcat Unregistered

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    I think so. I have an EBC rotor on the rear and it works great. But I don’t understand your front OEM rotors warping, that is not common at all on an 05 :eek1

    Of course if you had gone with OEM rotors, you would have a 2 year warranty on them but that should not be necessary to have
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    #17
  18. Final Drive

    Final Drive Adventurer

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    Remember you can disable the ABS and then try the front brake.
    #18
  19. BMW JEEP

    BMW JEEP Been here awhile

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    OK, I've owned this bike for four weeks now and have actually possesed it for one week and have ridden it twice..
    A&S still has it, but here's what they've done and are doing no charge to resolve the pulsation problem:
    1. Sent the front wheel to Woodys' Wheel Works for wheel and spoke allignment (there is a sticker on the rim from Woody's).
    2. Replaced both rotors with EBC Pro-lites
    3. They just called 2 days ago saying they are also replacing the pads with sintered EBC pads.

    Have yet to pick it up, supposed to be ready tomorrow or the next day, but credit them for doing everything possible to correct this problem.
    I'll report back after picking it up, in case anybody is still listening.
    #19
  20. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

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    EBC rotors are equal to or exceed the quality of OE rotors and are less than 1/2 price. I use them when I replace worn rotors. Their pads are also high quality.

    Most brake pulsing is due to pad residue deposited on the rotors during a hot stop (mostly on front brakes).

    When coming to a hard stop with hot rotors, release the front brake and apply the cool rear brake to allow the front rotors to cool and eliminate the pad residue from transferring with a clamped hot front brake.
    #20