Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Trials' started by DirtViking, Nov 7, 2012.
I found a 2006 Gas Gas 280 TXT Pro for sale that I like. Here's a few questions some of you experts can help me with:
Is this bike really hard-hitting from idle? I prefer smooth throttle response.
Does adding a second cylinder head gasket to reduce the compression smooth out the response?
What to look for when inspecting this bike?
Is this a good bike for a total beginner?
What do you think this bike is worth in very good condition?
No trials bike that I have ever ridden is "hard hitting" off idle. It defeats the purpose. You need to be able to roll on the throttle without breaking traction. At sea level the 280 will be pretty peppy, but trials motors are very linear. If you don't wind it up with the clutch in then dump it, it will be very smooth. Clutch and throttle control are key to trials. I don't think shimming the jug is a good idea...
Yes it would be a great starter bike. The parts are quite available, and there are lots of them around. As to price. I was considering a similar 07 300Pro for $4500, in like new condition, with no scratches on the skid plate.
As for what to look for. The suspension linkages in the back wear out. They are not cheap. If the rebound is gone in the rear shock. Not cheap. Shifter can bust, but if it does shift, you're probably ok. Shifting will feel crappy, compared to just about anything else you have ever ridden. They are just like that. These are astonishingly durable little machines. Unless it has been completely abused, and the oil never changed, it will probably serve you well. Rev it up, then cut the throttle. If you can hear piston clatter, it will need a top end, though some say run it till it blows, as these are generally low RPM machines, and it won't be catastrophic.
Then ride it till it dies.
Intrepid, I am going to try to help, but the above can be subjective/pov and costs and $$ differences if nothing else than your local suppliers, and economy, so can my answers... so that could answer #5
Hard hitting? To me, there is a difference in a nice similar 300, vs the 280. how much, a little or not much but me with enough experience definitely can feel it, beginner or not, depends again on your "abilities" and physical aptitude.
** like Deverking said, nothing compared to the difference between 250F vs 450F's so it is something easily adaptable to. **
Side note, they didn't import the 250 to usa, until about 2006, maybe 2008? so the 280 was the mainstream bike for average males, BUT I like the 300 better just comming from trials in the old days where the 325cc 350's were the norm, from spain, so to speak...
Anywho, the 280 is smaller bore than 300, 280 Bore x stroke 76 x 60 mm
300 Bore x stroke 79 x 60 mm. I have riden 300's with flywheel weights, with slow throttles, even with compression reducing tweaks. the 300 offers (depending on carb, AKA models) smooth power at a semi (IN MY MIND at least) linear rev, the 280 IMHO with smaller pistion revs (subjectively maybe even provably) quicker.
#2 & #4 yes beginner bike: No matter what, you control the "hit" or whatever you wanna call it, by using the CLUTCH, and throttle control, which you learn within a few HOURS of good practice with a good coach... And longer without one, buy watching all the videos you can on TTC, and youtube... that is ASSUMING, that you are at least one that can study and see what the "better riders" are doing, self apply it. If you have to learn with nothing but "mx only" buddies, this takes longer, and you pick up bad "normally used on dirt-bike" habits that then take weeks per hour to unlearn... Don't ask me how and why I know this.
#4 280 is a good bike. average weight/stature male. if you are closer to 150, maybe find a 250.
Detuning a 280 is easy, BUT there are NO head gaskets! not on gasgas and not on PRO models! there are orings, you wont add second head gasket But you could add gaskets to under the cylinder meets the crankcase to increase the area above TDC (lower the compression) but NOWDAYS you can do it 2 ways! cheaper but could be harder, is: there is a KIT form, copper looking head gasket that includes 4 orings, 2 to replace the orignals, then 2 that go in above or below the copper gasket, depends on how you look at it... that will reduce compression which will take some of the power/torgue away from the engine, due to the physics/science of low compression vs high compression any engines... I have nver tried this kit.
#2b New RACE & Raga (hensforth to be called "factory" models) have a 2 piece head, provided by a company and can be bought as an accessory from "S3" company. its 2 pieces to save buying a whole other head. the "compression" insert is interchangeable (aka the 2nd piece) from low compression, stock compression, and High compression. the kit should fil all years, depending on bores and what S3 sells. My dad has low compression insert on his 1012 Raga 300, I don't on my 11 Raga 300, his is easier to kick, is it a big difference, well I can tell the difference on snappy ness, but not a helluva bunch...
#3 what to look at
So wear items to check, fork tubes, for damages that especially cause leaky seals even with NEW seals. I ignore plastics as long as they arent just shit... ALL other parts, you can find out what replacement parts cost, rear brake pads run about $40 now, compared to $20 not long ago.
so things to consider?
Just like any other bike IMHO, except lets note that the gearbox makes noises when in neutral, clutch lever let out, should go away as soon as you pull in on the clutch. the gears should shift while riding, and the clutches on a "PRO" IMHO never completely let go (drag a little) compared to your dirt bikes. there are a bunch of adjustments and tweaks to clutch, and other things. Might be worth a look on Youtube for a user named "gasgasinfo" he's the importer for all parts in north america, they make video that were distrubited with north american imported bikes since at least 2000. you can see the quirks and other things about the clutch and gearbox, via all those maintenance videos. On here or Thumper talk, definitely on TRIALS CENTRAL subforum gasgas, there is a video about gearbox/clutch noises, and explanations on why 4th to 5th gear is not like a normal motorcycle, might seem notchy to the UNINITIATED to GASGAS Pro trials bikes.
check for things like, Leaky rear shock, Shocks new can cost up to I think $1000 for the reiger (best shock out there for gasgas) not sure it is direct bolt in replacement though either for that year though, Lewissport or someone would chime in would be nice) and rebuilt one (send your Sachs or even Ohlins, to the right shop, about 300) springs for sacked out forks or rear shock, rear spring was around or less than, 120 bucks last time I bought one, for the Sachs brand. Again as a beginner these wont be necessary unless you find a beat up bike, IMHO and they are around, for cheap mostly...
Front forks springs sold in pairs, were $150? this is for me when I was 280 needed "big boy FORK springs, which I do NOT do now, that I am much closer to 200-210lbs. But Im talking extreme problem replacements, or above and beyond (even if you bought a new bike these are extras) or needed accessory which might not be needed until you get way past beginner either, if your weight needs them, you can't discount the bike prices for just "upgrades" you might need...
is the bike "kept up"? hows the chain and sprockets, stuff like any other bike take either time or money (if you dont like to do all your own work) to make "good." Again your buying used, I know that you know that, so just think about that... if the bike is perfect I could see it being above $4 easy, average maybe closer to 4? ragged out, then bargain it out best you can.
Another thing is with the above, forks and stuff, the fix (minus labor) isn't that bad for a person to recondition! Just like dirt bikes, you just have to find your parts sources, learn to find help, and learn how to do whatever or pay to get it done.
So, a whole bearing replacement kit, for the rear suspension linkage (which is below the rear shock) is like $100. if you lift rear wheel the "play" you feel should be minimal, as in up to 1/2 inch on a well use bike, and of course, less than that when brand new, of wheel movement as you lift the rear wheel, up to where you hit shock where you would have movement (or un-movement as the case will be when you do this test). Grease can help a bunch as long as the bearings, which you cannot see without taking apart, aren't full of rust&Dirt...
Tires for Dunlops are (depending on where you buy) front 80, rear 100, Michelin x-lite are MORE each, rear over 150?. Importer has Chinese xlite clones (rear) for around $70? if you dont live in KC, then you have to include shipping.
My prices I am trying to recall from memory and have to probably errors, inflation, and my memory and "my price" from local best friend that can get me better than some elsewhere. I had plans to buy things (except springs) this spring, but money is tight. so these prices are AFAIK last year, without local discount I believe. Just like everything else value of used declines each day, costs of parts go up all the time, lol. so do new bikes.
so see if you can relate that to what you look for on any bike.
Also know things like pipe guards or fork tank guards are not cheap, so even used ones are damn nice to get on a bike, so bid accordingly... you can cut radiator hose for protect the pipe from burning you, and bicycle TUBES to cover fork tanks and protect from nicks, lol... might not look as perfect as $100+ carbon fiber fork guards, but hey...
Hope this helps a little I know it is not that great of help either, but what the hell, wasted 2 hours typing and editing, lol!!!
Adding to the above, sheeit man, just ride one, 99% of us "competitors" ride (and I mean below Intermediate class which can be 4 steps above novice/beginner)... ride bone stock bikes. wear and tear of normal use, over the years, will take some of the edge off any bike. Each year or 2 it seems they change a few things to change how the bike uses horsepower or torque to move you and the bike, 06 was a good year on my 300, I bet it is for 280 as well.
PS, about the pistons and noises... I have a 93 250 gasgas trials bike, has obviously lots of use, BUT... we just this past year, finally honed cylinder (I dont know maybe they didnt even do that) BUT we do know we replaced the piston for oversize/worn bore... SO, point is, trials bikes unless they have had undue stresses (wound up too tight, aboused, and or something went wrong with cooling or just ran with the less oil in premix) last a damn long time, compared to the old air cooled standard automotive cylinder type sleeves. cylinder sleeves are super hard coated, you manage ring wear maybe for most well ridden/maintaned bikes.
Sting32, this is the most awesome reply I've received here at ADV! Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions in great detail.
DerViking, thank you too. I'll consider your ideas too.
After thinking all night about it, Pricing for the model year (this is the only miss speak about the 06, and sorry) I realized I was dreaming/thinking of the 09? 250 I saw somewhere, even though talking PRICES of the 06's. So take at least $500 off my values, unless from a "dealer" I think, they have to make money you know.
06 like new probably 3500, hard for me to say exactly as I havent seen one - much over that being high probably, with it being stock, NON accessorized maximum and probably still high where I would find a MORE "used" even newer year, and be more happy... I have seen a 2010 300 Raga sell for $4500, was pretty damn clean, but it might been fluke type of deal... so wait for a deal you might find one, or miss one. OTher things add value to the sale, like used helmets and spare parts!
but those prices, are here in "conservative farm country" prices, east or west coast where economy is different, they could be higher like my initial guesses. I have seen advertized prices be high but negotiated sell prices are seldom disclosed, if you know what I mean? if I sell my car on craigslist (apposed to here for example) I probably inflate the price by a few hundred at least, just so I can come down, and we all feel better, on here I ask what I think it was worth, usually... I mean, you can't ask for more after you post it, I have met one guy that was able to, he posted something I wanted for exactly what he wanted price wise, then since we are amicable people, he explained "firm" or the fact that he didn't inflate the price to negotiate to the same which I think was fair, price... so just sayin...
Good luck, I cant believe you won't sell it close to what you paid, if you check other places see what they want for similar.