2011 bmw g 650 gs fork failure

Discussion in 'Face Plant' started by antiquewidow, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. atomicalex

    atomicalex silly aluminum boxes

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    I guess it only makes sense to those of us who have participated in OE/Tier transportation recalls in administrative and technical roles. I have yet to do one from the regulatory side. :norton

    The GM case is open and shut for NHTSA - and notice that NHTSA has not actually required GM to recall the switches. Why? Because they perform as designed, and to the current safety standard. GM is recalling them because there are so damn many of them and they are cheap to R&R. Additionally, the "defect" is possible to design out with simple engineering, and NHTSA can quickly confirm that the fix will work as designed without impacting other systems.

    A defect that can't be quantified, qualified, or otherwise measured is almost impossible to design around. BMW has beefed up the axle buss twice, and there are still occasional fractures. Believe it or not, NHTSA has some engineers on staff, and I am quite sure that they have consulted to BMW to try to fix the problem. When BMW and NHTSA can figure out what the root cause of the fractures is and provide a certifiable means to eliminate them, then and only then can NHTSA force a recall. Prior to that, if the failure rate does not exceed the federal guidelines, meh. Also, up until a recall is ordered, people CAN sue BMW. Once the recall is issued, it's not so easy.

    Like I said, I guess the whole recall process only makes sense to those of us who have to operate the process.

    Perhaps you guys should put some of the effort into reforming NHTSA. It would be much more effective than screaming on the internet about BMW.

    Besides, I can see exactly what the outcome of a recall would be already. Every bike would be hauled into the dealership and the fork ends would be treated with Magnaflux dye. No cracks after some predetermined number of miles that BMW and NHTSA agree is realistic? Good to go. And then if it broke after the mileage number was exceeded, well, tough shit. Those whose cracks were caught early enough would get to wait for new fork sliders, likely with the bike in impound at the dealership. Those who didn't would be SOL. Because that is how the law works.

    Go to Grainger and buy your own dye and keep and eye on things. When you find a crack, post up and ask how to best approach BMW.
  2. TxLoneRider

    TxLoneRider Been here awhile

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    As far as the GM issue, a local report to the DFW area, Ed Wallace, took the time to go over all of the GM ignition lock cases, and found that in all of the cases the car hit a curb or some other object, generally at an elevated speed before the ignition turned off.

    In general his opinion seems to be, a defective ignition switch can not cause the vehicle to exceed the speed limit while driving down the wrong side of the rode. As mentioned above, the majority of the ignition switch "victims" where also well above the BAC limit.

    As far as the Toyota case, even though Toyota got the opportunity to help solve the US federal deficit to the tune of a billion or 2 dollars, in every single case peddle mismanagement was to blame. IOW, the driver was not actually pressing the brake pedal. And despite all those wantabe racers driving Camry's trying to impress the girls, the brakes are more than capable of over powering the engine and stopping and vehicle if the accelerator is fully depressed.

    And of course finally, Ford did screw up and recommended 24 PSI for the Firestone tires to improve the shoddy ride of the explorers. Firestone of course provided a cheap ass tire that was rates for 80-90 mph at 30 PSI, and the asshats in the Federal government raised the speed limits from 55 to 70+ mph. Add in that people don't tend to check their tire pressure that often, let alone check for cracks in the side walls. And that is why Explorers flipped and blew up, okay I added that last part.

    In all cases of modern automobile mass death and destruction, the owners of the vehicles where likely primarily responsible for their accidents. Seriously, who here does not eye the tires of their vehicles on a regular basis??

    In the case of BMW, meh, so the front tire fell off, could happen to anyone right, well, not, just BMW owners. and of course, all the motorcycle manufactures have rear rim separate from the hub, no, sorry, just BMW, and of course, all the shaft drive motorcycles designed have significant failure rates, again, sorry, that is just BMW, and the list goes on.
  3. Max Kool

    Max Kool Xtankteam™

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    Looking at the above two pictures I still think the left fork leg blocked for some reason where the right one didn't. So only the right leg compresses, stressing the axle to the point where it bent, and broke lug on the right leg.

    The end of the axle is pointing down, this can only happen if the front wheel is twisted sideways in the forks. 12 o'clock to the left, 6 o'clock to the right. Maybe some monday morning hangover dude severely overfilled the left fork leg on assembly?
  4. _vortex_

    _vortex_ snow snow snow :(

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    Actually, the floormat part of that was quite real, and resulted in killing a few folks, including one that was driven by a CA state trooper (and his entire family) if I recall.

    And yes, while, a properly thinking driver can overpower the engine with a single hard press of the brake pedal - panicked drivers don't do that.

    They hit the brakes once, half way.... use up a bunch of their available boost, and heat the brakes up. Then they let go. They speed up again. They hit the brakes again. Use up more boost. Heat the brakes more. Let go.

    At the same time, the engine is full throttle - so it is hardly creating any vacuum to replenish the brake boost.

    Repeat 3 or 4 times, and you now have complete brake failure. You either don't have enough boost left to overcome the engine, or you have cooked the brakes, and you have no chance of stopping.

    Oh, and as usual, the govt also botched the investigation into the computer software that Toyota was using. Kinda like how they botched this BMW investigation.

    In 2013, they lost a court case because a proper review if their software and firmware proves that unintended acceleration is possible due to their horrible software implementation, which violates nearly all industry standards for mission critical things.

    http://www.edn.com/design/automotiv...ler-firmware--Bad-design-and-its-consequences

    They aren't going to court anymore now... now they are settling.... and re engineering their firmware...
  5. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

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    I´m not saying this is the way technology should work, of course not.

    But if your engine were out of control, and using brake doesn´t solve the situation, won´t turning off the ignition switch do this – it still won´t turn off or what?

    It sounds like something from a Hollywood-movie to me. Trucks roaming around without a driver.
  6. atomicalex

    atomicalex silly aluminum boxes

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    Like I said, you really want change? Reform the bodies that govern this stuff.

    Want better drivers? Campaign for better driver training/stiffer testing. Heck, MI has gone to 24 hours of theory and minimum 6 hours of one-on-one in-car instruction for just a Level 1 license. And only with a licensed instructor. Practically freaking Germany. Thank the FSM!

    In this case, what is not particularly clear to everyone is that with NHTSA and BMW unable to find a clear failure mode and mitigation strategy, there is no path to a recall. The public is better served by being able to sue BMW in the event of damages, a path that would basically disappear if a recall was forced through. NHTSA is holding BMW's feet to the fire by exposing them to lawsuits. This puts the onus on BMW to find out why this failure continues to occur. Until they can do so, they are going to be subject to lawsuits.

    If you don't like how the process works, go argue with NHTSA or your local legislator who can change it.
  7. zig06

    zig06 Been here awhile

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    If you ever experience "unintended acceleration" in a car, there is a fail safe method of dealing with it ~ assuming that you don't forget or just simply panic (both easy to do under those circumstances).

    The fail safe is to just put the car in neutral (automatic) or push in the clutch (manual). This will keep the power steering operating correctly and prevent the need to stomp on the brake pedal to over come the engine. Keying the engine off would work, but then you'd lose power steering and brake boost plus you risk turning the key off too far and locking the steering wheel. Once you've come to a stop then shut the engine off ~ if it hasn't already blown...

    BUT, if the front wheel of your G650 falls off the only thing that you can hope for is a soft and gentle "unintended stop". [​IMG]
  8. JettPilot

    JettPilot ADV Rider

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    It does not matter if they have been " Trained " or not. If you need to stop the car, and pressing the brakes does not have the normal effect, any person with any intelligence at all is going to press harder, or as hard as they can... Same with steering, I don't care what the failure is, if I need to turn the wheel, and it is stiffer than normal, I am going to try to turn it harder. Only a total dumbass would just give up if they could not turn the wheel with their fingertips as normal.

    I was test driving a car once, and the accelerator stuck to the floor. I just turned the key off and stopped. I was never " Trained " in this, I am just not a dumbass that would crash a car over a small unexpected failure.

    The people that crashed the cars when the ignition got turned off = Dumbasses, training or not...

    Mike
  9. DrPepperz

    DrPepperz Adventurer

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    agreed so much arguments filled too many pages, what was the result, new bike? compensation for injuries? did they take care of you at all or just try to lay all the blame on you?
  10. R0CKETMAN

    R0CKETMAN Adventurer

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    agreed

    What was the outcome?... I've actually considered picking up a G650
  11. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

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    For the record there is only 1 instance of failure in 2011 or later model, it is this one, AntiqueWidow claimed insurance, replaced machine with another make/model and moved on with her life, what action the insurance Co took, if any, is unknown, it is up to them to take action. The BMW Dealer was informed at the time

    We also now know these 2011+ forks are not made by showa, we do not know which manufacturer produces them for BMW
  12. wild

    wild Been here awhile

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    what makes you think it is the only case??? I have read about few cases already from different years including not only this model but other as well like e.g. F800GS.

    and here another interesting BMW stories...

    http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/rec...ycles-potentially-critical-suspension-defect/
  13. Max Kool

    Max Kool Xtankteam™

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    a. where did you read that?


    b. doesn't the F800GS have totally different forks?
  14. wild

    wild Been here awhile

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    so that makes them ok to break?


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
  15. Badjuju

    Badjuju Biker Billy

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    That appears to be a frame/steering stem/triple clamp failure, NOT a fork failure. Not desirable, but completely unrelated….
  16. Max Kool

    Max Kool Xtankteam™

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    Ditto that ^^

    totally unrelated
  17. AlwaysRolling

    AlwaysRolling Been here awhile

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    On that R1200GS is looks as though the telelever unit is missing. What's the story behind that picture?
  18. SilkMoneyLove

    SilkMoneyLove Long timer

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    BMW co-branding with West Coast Choppers? :-)
  19. DualGrampy

    DualGrampy Adventurer

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    In 2009 a friend of mine had the front fork fall off of his r1200. He was going about 45 mph around a curve when he dumped. The right fork was put on with a regular nut. This was a brand new bike. Dealer and BMW claimed "it could not have been them." He explained that he would not have ordered $5k in options if he was going to work on the bike, let alone take the front fork off for no reason. End result was that his insurance covered it and he had to pay $1000 deductible.

    I really thought the dealership should have picked up the $1000, but he doesn't have any hard feelings against the dealer. He recommended I buy my latest bike from them and I did. Wish me luck. Maybe I will have my girlfriend ride that one (just kiddin')
  20. Max Kool

    Max Kool Xtankteam™

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    What is a regular nut?