2012 800GS throttle improvement?

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Travism, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. Travism

    Travism Adventurer

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Oddometer:
    86
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    So i had my 2011 800GS in at the dealer a couple weeks ago and they loaned me a new 2012 for the day. The first thing i noticed was a big improvement in the throttle response over my 2011. The initial roll-on in the 2012 was much smoother and the 0 to a-little-bit-on lurch I am so used to seemed to be absent. Last weekend I was at the RawHyde/Touratech rally here in WA and was talking to a fellow who was on his second f800, a new 2012 (he had an 09 previously) and i asked him if he noticed anything different about the throttle on the 2012 model vs the older model. He replied: "yeah. they fixed it!!"

    The question: has anyone else noticed this? Or better yet, does anyone have info about what the "fix" was? Better better yet, is it something that can be applied to older models? I've tried the plugin dongle thingy that alters the fuel mapping, and it seems to help a bit, but i still struggle with the jumpiness. I'm looking at trying the G2 as well.

    Mostly I'm just curious if this is something BMW has officially addressed and intentionally corrected in the 2012, or, like the surging in the r1100 boxers from 12 years ago, its something they just quietly fixed without ever acknowledging there was an issue in the first place.
    #1
  2. HappyHighwayman

    HappyHighwayman Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Oddometer:
    312
    Location:
    San Francisco
    I have a 2012 and I find it a little twitchy in 1st but totally manageable.
    #2
  3. Travism

    Travism Adventurer

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Oddometer:
    86
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    HH, have you compared your '12 to an earlier model? Just wonderin'.
    #3
  4. Nacho911

    Nacho911 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Oddometer:
    488
    Location:
    Alberta Rocky Mountains Canada
    I bought the power commander from coonass and I'm happy with a noticeable improvement on the twitch. I'm happy with that. Now just to find a wee different gear ratio. Problem between 1st and 2nd gear, it just isn't right for slow control. The F650gs has great torque for low speed control.

    I agree too what did BMW do to fix this surge,twitch issue? Mapping, or throttle curve in the throttle housing?
    #4
  5. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,369
    Location:
    Nor Ca.
    I would not expect BMW to announce any change that corrects a problem. Short of a recall, changes are made with service upgrades to the dealer if done during production of that model year.

    The cure would be simple enough, change the low rpm fuel mapping. I am sure the original mapping was to address Europe's emission standards.
    Sometimes mods are done to meet standards that are years in the future. An example is mandated ABS required by 2017.

    I do not know if this is the norm, but my dealer claims he has no knowledge of what is contained in any software change. Just following orders.

    They extract the old software when installing new. "Maybe" they could/would install it, if asked.
    #5
  6. sieg

    sieg Wearing out tires......2 at a time, day after day.

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,030
    Location:
    Southern Illinois USA
    Yea, and it has a taller gear ratio.:huh Wish my F8 had the F658 engine
    #6
  7. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,369
    Location:
    Nor Ca.
    It would be cheaper to just fix the problem. Power commanders, the fuel modules coupled with a G2 throttle tube do that.
    #7
  8. Nacho911

    Nacho911 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Oddometer:
    488
    Location:
    Alberta Rocky Mountains Canada
    Sieg,
    I'm sure you know the F650gs uses the same motor as the 800, just de-tuned. It is very noticeable on slow technical terrain, the difference between the two bikes. The 800 need the clutch feathered between 1st and 2nd to keep the RPM's in a happy place. The 650 loves 2 nd gear slow progress technical terrain without bogginess or low RPM stall.

    I'd like to find that happy place on my 800. Gear change right? Front less a tooth?

    :ear
    #8
  9. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,369
    Location:
    Nor Ca.
    See my above post. With the mods, my bike is very difficult to stall period. It will accelerate from 1,800rpm in 6th gear on a slight paved incline.

    You are right about the differences. Different cams with ignition timing to match. The big problem with the F800gs is very lean fueling below 2,200 rpm. Since I cannot find a dyno report of the F658 with Air fuel ratio's I cannot compare. Love to see one. I do know this, if you put the 658 counter sprocket on the F800gs it does a very good job of masking the abrupt throttle syndrome. I ran it for a year and only took it off for some rougher trail I planned to do.

    I believed the myth of Superior Triumph 800 HP until I found a comparison dyno of the two. The BMW makes more HP and torque, except for a small band, all the way up to 8,500rpm.

    I have a feeling it may be the same for the F658.
    #9
  10. sorebutt

    sorebutt Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,329
    Location:
    Lewiston,ID
    I put a Trottletamer on my 2011 and it made a big difference. The new cam on the throttle takes up cable a lot slower at the start so it isn't as twitchy.
    #10
  11. HappyHighwayman

    HappyHighwayman Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Oddometer:
    312
    Location:
    San Francisco
    No I haven't tried a pre-2012 model.

    I'd like to go power commander route perhaps with an after market exhaust but I'm worried about killing the warranty.
    #11
  12. 990

    990 Krap To Maintain

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Oddometer:
    192
    Location:
    East London ZA
    I sold my KTM 990 to buy a 800 and the 990 also had a twitchy throttle, more so than the 800 but after a while you learn to apply the throttle at the correct rate and the problem goes away. I don't have a problem with the 800 not sure if its because its the 2012 model or not, but I don't think you need to spend money trying to fix the problem just need to restrain your wrist:lol3 or keep it all the way open:rofl
    #12
  13. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,369
    Location:
    Nor Ca.
    Works if you have wrist of steel. I could not do that, negotiating a field of rocky terrain. Between feed back from the suspension and the light switch low rpm throttle, I was just looking for another rock to hit at mach1. :lol3
    #13
  14. markymcd

    markymcd Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Oddometer:
    890
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    with the 41 on the rear, going to a 16t front is great. you lose a bit of high end speed but you can always switch back to 17 for road trips.

    i'm about to put on a 44t supersprox rear and an 18t front for road trips and 17t for everyday. the gear ratio is slightly more relaxed so it should be a great combo.... I can also put my 16t on to make it a torquin' wheelie machine.
    #14
  15. Vitruvian Mike

    Vitruvian Mike Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Oddometer:
    157
    Location:
    Dumont, CO
    What he said! I spent some hairball hours this weekend with superhuman throttle management efforts to keep the F8 from lurching WTFO or stalling. Some significant, rocky, and very featured trails up in the area of Independence pass in Colorado. Great trail, but it is very clear the throttle cam or electronic equivalent needs some love on this machine.

    I'm wondering about the Throttlemeister mentioned earlier.

    vMike


    #15
  16. sorebutt

    sorebutt Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,329
    Location:
    Lewiston,ID
    It just isn't having a steady throttle hand. The bike rotates around you when on the pegs. Hold the hand steady and the bike twist the trottle as it rotates. It only takes about 1/16" of movement to make the bike jump. I've gone up steep rocky slopes standing and you can hear the engine changing even when holding the trottle as still as possible. It is so sensitive that you can't rotate the trottle to counteract the movement of the bike. Just going around a corner and moving the thumb to turn off the turn signal is almost impossible without moving the throttle. An additional problem is the lack of spring tension on the throttle. There is so little you can't feel what the throttle is doing. I've had the web of my glove between the finger and thumb actually move the throttle when I apply the front brake.

    I'm not sure how a chip that increases fuel can solve the problem. It seems to me that would make it worst. The throttle is not by wire so the only thing that makes sense to me is something like the Throttletamer that takes up cable at a slower rate.
    #16
  17. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,369
    Location:
    Nor Ca.

    Do what I did. I bought an accelerator module. A resister that plugs between the air box sensor and the ECU. Makes the computer think it is cold outside, a condition that causes it to go to a richer map. Only works when applying throttle, so a part time fix.

    It leaves no record of any faults and you can remove it when taking it in for service.

    There are at least 3 models that I know of and all work on the same principal. You rarely hear anything but approval. They work. Once you understand how the BMW fuel injection works and what the modules do, you will understand why. The worst thing that could happen is if the module causes such a rich mixture that it suets up the oxygen sensor or causes problems with the catalytic converter.

    What they actually do is cause your ecu to richen the fuel mixture, by no more than 6 % and then only when applying throttle. I have had mine for 2 years and it has done neither.

    I recently had my first shop service after expiration of warranty. The BMW computer did not detect it. The service yokels, laugh and tell you it is snake oil. I doubt any of them ride a bike.

    I also recommend the G2 throttle tube. An eccentric cable wheel that requires more throttle movement to get the same result of cable pull in the first part of acceleration. Add them both and you will think you are riding a carburated bike. Not too different than the wheel that BMW adds to the throttle body to comply with European HP requirements for tiered drivers licenses, except they add a stop.
    #17
  18. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,643
    Location:
    The great state of confusion
    Back in the early days of the twin there was a guy that decided to mess with the "other end" of the throttle cable and modified the cam on the throttle bodies... I can't quite remember how he did it...
    #18
  19. tkent02

    tkent02 Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,323
    Location:
    Littleton, CO
  20. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,643
    Location:
    The great state of confusion
    #20