2012 ktm 500 exc?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Visigothic, Apr 27, 2011.

  1. charlie27

    charlie27 Adventurer

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    hi,

    on my mountain bikes I have run tubeless tires. They work great. In the past I have converted other mtn bikes to tubeless using Stan's Notubes.

    Seems like this would work on our dirt bikes. The process would be to seal the rim with tape as used with Stans. Then add Stans to seal the tire and used for sealing any punctures. This would save weight and eliminate pinch flats.

    http://www.notubes.com/

    anyone tried this and what results?

    thanks
  2. Stifdickerson2006

    Stifdickerson2006 Been here awhile

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    The issue you are going to have is the rim lock with that kit. for $30.00 more per wheel you could get the tubliss kit http://tubliss.com/ which is made for dirt bikes and works great.
  3. charlie27

    charlie27 Adventurer

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    I saw tubeliss technology

    looks interesting - anyone using it and if so how long and what experience?

    thanks
  4. DYNOBOB

    DYNOBOB lucky dog

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    General consensus is it's a solid product. I have them in both of my bikes and am pleased. Only thing that was a bit of a shock was the 3-4oz of weight opposite the rimlock it took to balance each wheel. It took a entire 14pc set from Nomar to do both bikes. http://www.nomartirechanger.com/Spoke_Weights_p/wt-spoke14.htm No vibes cruising at 70mph.





    .
  5. Stifdickerson2006

    Stifdickerson2006 Been here awhile

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    I have been using it for at least 3-4 years and really like it. The facts sheet on the product explains the benefits and in my opinion holds up to what they claim. I have no bad experiences with the product there is a learning curve to installing the tires but after a couple times you have the hang of it and iit's actually easier than tube type. Just my opinion. Initial purhase is a little pricey at $80.00 to $100.00 per wheel but I have not bought tubes or had a flat in 4+ years(knock on wood) you can run lower tire pressures and not worry about pinch flats, and unlike the bib mousse you can run all day on the road without burning them up. I run Slime or run flat in mine and have had no issues. Use a tire with a good sturdy sidewall (like Motoz Tirez) and when flat they are like riding with 8psi which if you where to get a flat that was not plugable you could still get around pretty well. I let the air out of both frt and rear just to see how it would be and they held on and it was still very rideable. I use the motoz tirez and because of the natural rubber they use in the tires you can actually run higher tire pressure but still get the feel of 2-3 psi lower tire pressure. I really like this combo.
  6. Stifdickerson2006

    Stifdickerson2006 Been here awhile

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    i used 3.5 per wheel and its very smooth on the road. 3-1oz weights on the 3 spokes opposite the rim lock and 1-.5oz weight 3rd spoke over opposite the valve. makes it very smooth. with a dual sport bike it does not save you alot of weight but if you run a heavy duty tube and with a heavy duty rim band its probably about the same or a little more. But worth it.
  7. bill1960

    bill1960 Been here awhile

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    I ended up getting the Renthal KTM Lo bend
    Renthal's website listed the 500xcw oem bar sweep as 57mm and the Renthal KTM Lo bend as 41mm.
    However, thats turned out to be false info in a side by side comparison.
    The Renthal ktm lo bend has the same sweep as the OEM neken bars .
    So if you're looking for minimum sweep, may as well stick with oem as far as I can tell.
  8. ossa

    ossa Adventurer

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    I've read, checked and searched for an answer, sorry if I've missed it...

    Actually I'm a 350 EXC owner, but no matter, applies to both the 350 and 500...

    I've seen it asserted several times, that de-smogging makes no difference to the
    ECU. Makes sense to me as I've read the charcoal canister and the air pump function described. I've also read how the popping is eliminated, flooding of the canister with a dirt nap on the left is eliminated, and ridability is either improved or unaffected with de-smogging. BUT, if desmogging makes no difference to the ECU, WHY DO WE HAVE TO TURN THE IDLE SCREW OUT TO ACHIEVE A STABLE IDLE AFTER DE-SMOGGING?

    Also, I've seen asserted that removal of the air pump makes no real emission difference as we're just diluting exhaust with clean air. But isn't the popping actually burning of unburned gasses in the exhaust, making the exhaust slightly cleaner? Just curious on this, but the ECU question seems important to me. Thanks.
  9. E-Ticket2

    E-Ticket2 E-Ticket

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    If you do the full de-smog ... then you block off the connector to the the intake manifold (see following pics).
    By doing that, you are changing how much air is getting into the intake manifold. That alone would be cause enough for needing to adjust the idle. :lurk

    E-Ticket
    ================================

    De-Smogifyin' Testin'

    In the spirit of being methodical and *sure*, I decided to see if I could disable (without removing) the emissions
    equipment and be able to detect a difference that each component had on performance.
    First up was the Secondary Air System (SAS).
    It's the long, lateral, rubber tube below the charcoal canister that connects to the aluminum canister that bolts on to the head
    just above the exhaust port.
    Together they inject fresh air into the exhaust port (between the exhaust valve and the header.)
    The long rubber tube is connected to a small canister that contains an air filter material.
    This helps ensure dust-n-crap aren't sucked through the reed valve.
    (In the following picture, the filter canister is located just above the thermal sensor on the head.)
    [​IMG]

    The aluminum canister on the left contains a reed valve that is opened and closed by pressure changes in the exhaust port/pipe.
    It sucks in fresh air into a cavity just above the exhaust port and into the exhaust pipe.
    This fresh air source helps burn any remaining un-burned fuel left over from the combustion process.
    In positive pressure cycles, the reed valve closes and nothing happens.
    The whole assembly is a "passive" fresh-air system. That means that it is not powered .... or connected to any
    other part of the emissions system. It works solely by the exhaust pressure pulses.
    [​IMG]

    So how to disable the SAS without removing it? Got it! Just plug ... or cap the dang thing. Easy-peesy.
    [​IMG]

    Slap the gas tank back on a go for a short ride. Remember ... I'm only changing one thing at a time.
    And EUREKA! NO MORE IRRITATING POPPING ON DE-ACCELERATION!!
    Just smooth power up and down. Yes-s-s-s-s-s-sssssss....!
    So I stopped and disabled the next item.

    There is an electrically-controlled solenoid valve mounted on the bottom of the throttle body.
    [​IMG]

    It connects, via rubber tubing, the charcoal canister and the brass nipple on the intake manifold.
    [​IMG]

    It's primary function, I'm guessing, is to open and close .... and route gas fumes and emissions from the
    charcoal canister ... to the intake manifold .... so that they can be burned up with the fuel charge going into the engine.
    But I have *no* clue as to "when* or what conditions that the valve is activated.
    I simply unplugged the electrical connector to the solenoid valve (shown below), and zip-tied it off to the side.
    Note: You use needle-nose pliers and lift up ... and out ... the silver wire retainer. You can then remove the connector.
    Started the bike. No real change. Went for a short test ride. No dectable change. Hmmmm.....!!
    Best guess is that it is normally closed valve and only opens on command from the ECU.
    [​IMG]

    Cool man. Back to the gee-rage to do a "canisterectomy." :^)

    >>>>>


    ...!"

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    To install, I put a very thin coat of Honda Bond 4 (non-hardening, flexible, sealant) around the head of the bolt
    and the sealing surfaces of the small copper washer. I then *carefully* applied my very small piece of teflon tape
    for sealing the threads.

    Screwed in the bolt carefully and snugged it down firmly. But don't over do it!
    Remember, the threads are aluminum and there aren't that many of them.

    As a final step, I cleaned up the excess Honda-Bond sealant and used a Sharpie marker to put on
    a "registration mark" on the bolt head and the manifold. Then all I have to do is glance at the bolt head
    to see if it is staying tight or backing out.

    [​IMG]
  10. ossa

    ossa Adventurer

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    If you do the full de-smog ... then you block off the connector to the the intake manifold (see following pics).
    By doing that, you are changing how much air is getting into the intake manifold. That alone would be cause enough for needing to adjust the idle. :lurk

    E-Ticket
    ================================

    First Mr. E-Ticket, I must thank you for your generosity in responding not only to my post, but your outstanding knowledge sharing on your EXC 350 post. Tons of useful information! I have read it in the past, end to end!

    This is very interesting...
    On page 45, our friend Zuber says:
    "The charcoal cannister/tank vent (closed tank system) has only one electical connection to the ECU, that's the air valve under the throttle body. The ECU does not detect if this is connected, like on the v-twins. It only sends power to this valve at certain rpm/throttle settings to vent out the charcoal cannister."

    Maybe the valve is open at idle which is a leaning condition which tends to raise the idle speed and plugging the hole enriches the mixture by allowing less air, therefore tending to lower the idle, requiring turning out the idle screw? People talk about flooding with poor starting/idling after taking a left side fall. This would support that the valve is open at idle. If my premise is wrong that the valve is open at idle, then the logic falls apart and I can't make sense of why the idle would go up with disconnecting and plugging.

    Also, if the valve is open at any condition off idle and we've disconnected the solenoid and plugged the hole, then the engine is getting less air than the ECU thinks and it's management might be off a bit? With less air than it thinks, it might tend to be rich? Any concerns or does anyone know that the valve always closed off idle?
  11. Colemanfu

    Colemanfu King of all manfu

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    :norton
    Not sure what's being chased here? Desmog or not? ECU?

    Anyway, how about some more pix? Dirtier the better but I do enjoy the garage and hop up pix :evil.

    Last week during a trip 600 miles and 9 hr north to the mountians of south west VA, I got my first chance to ride in the snow. 3 days, cabin was at 3100ft, 24-38' but was never cold and deepest snow was about a foot. OMG was it fun - I was like :D every time out. I was also shocked how much it was like riding in the sand. Biggest diff was elevation change and the frozen ground (at times) under the snow.

    [​IMG]
    On the top of Mt Maximo looking over at Iron Mt range.

    [​IMG]
    I parked in this pine forest to get out of the wind. Sun was out and the snow was still dumping - loved it.

    [​IMG]
    Barn parking at night - too cold to thaw but it prevent any more snow - it caked up like tundra? The bike did fantastic.
  12. ossa

    ossa Adventurer

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    I'm trying to get to the real understanding of the impact of de-smog and the relationship with ECU behavior. Ultimately yes, whether to de-smog or not...
    And no, I don't see it as circular. If you have the definitive understanding, please share or point me to it. I have yet to see the topic clearly explained, or explained at all for that matter.
  13. Dirty in all

    Dirty in all Adrenaline Junkie

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    Well what is happening when you desmog is you are changing the mixture and the ECU doesnt know it or adjust for it. Idle is an air screw. When you plug up all the leaks you need to add air again via the idle screw. Not much more to say about it. I guess not obvious to some people but it has been covered. Maybe not in so many words... or less.
  14. ossa

    ossa Adventurer

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    Is the solenoid valve open only at idle or other throttle settings as well?

    Thanks.
  15. Dirty in all

    Dirty in all Adrenaline Junkie

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    Don't think thats a definitive answer but yes it has been thought to be open at idle with a full canister/rich condition no load, causing bad idle and stalling.
  16. ossa

    ossa Adventurer

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    Thanks very much.
  17. Zuber

    Zuber Zoob

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    Yeah, there is a small air leak through the canister at idle. This is very minor, but enough to raise the idle. When you plug the vacuum hose at the intake manifold the idle will drop, so you need to open up the idle a little to make up for it.

    This doesn't effect the mixture. It doesn't know if the air is coming past the idle speed screw or leaking in through a vacuum hose. This is an open loop system, it knows rpm, throttle position, temps, vacuum, calculates what the mix should be and throws it down the hole.

    The reason to remove this canister is the erratic running when the canister gets over full with fuel. When you drop the bike or ride down a steep hill liquid fuel will get blow out the vent and fill up the canister. Then it dumps this liquid into the engine instead of a little vapor. It will soak the plug and in bad cases (BMW) it will hydro lock the motor and bend a rod. It does remove VOC's from the atmosphere.

    The other control, the SAS (air valve in the exhust) just adds fresh air to the exhaust and fools the test to make it seem there is less pollution coming out. It doesn't change the amount of pollution created, just lowers the percent of total gas coming out. It makes the back fires, but doesn't effect the running.

    Hope this helps. Most of the weird running and flame out's go away after 15 hours.
  18. ossa

    ossa Adventurer

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    It does help. Thanks!
  19. buls4evr

    buls4evr No Marks....

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    Another good reason to lose that canister and smog valve is that the larger 3 gal and up tanks all require them to be gone in order to fit. They take gas capacity space.
  20. yzedf

    yzedf Adventurer

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    Picked up my 2013 today!

    Started with this in the morning

    [​IMG]

    This in the afternoon

    [​IMG]

    Went to Pachaug for the first time and found this

    [​IMG]

    Awesome bike so far. Even with crazy tall 15/45 gearing this bike rips on top and good grunt down low. :cool: