2013 Dakar - On 4 wheels

Discussion in 'Racing' started by Aquatic, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. Balkan Boy

    Balkan Boy Long timer

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    So you're saying it were the French? :D


    I forgot that Gordon said they had the system in previous years...

    Strong words.
    I'll remember this. :wink:
    #61
  2. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    Not necessarily... :wink: As the famous Basil Fawlty once said; :deal
    (don't mention the war... I think I may have... once... but I think I got away with it... :huh)





    :rofl

    <TABLE style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" class=tborder border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=4 width="100%" align=center><TBODY><TR title="Post 19952452" vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 width=125 align=middle>Balkan Boy</TD><TD class=alt1>Quote:
    <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by troy safari carpente [​IMG]
    Not really...

    I have an (unconfirmed) theory on how that one could have gone down...

    .....


    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


    I forgot that Gordon said they had the system in previous years...


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    Some of the team managers carry "note books"... that go back several events... even years.
    #62
  3. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    That's interesting... when the announcement first came out of Nasser and the US buggy idea, I thought to myself; "Hmmmm... Al Attiyah must have exhausted all of the other viable (top team) seat options out there - eg. a Hilux, or a MINI or even a X-Raid BMW - to go with a putting his money into a "from the ground up" project like a new 2WD buggy from the states...?" :huh

    I mean, with the funding he has from QATAR, you'd think that one of the above type of options would be logical... Existing teams, with proven vehicles and experience/logistics of the race... but then again it could be a case of "no spare chairs/burnt bridges" was the response from the other camps? :wink:

    When the announcement came... although I looked - I couldn't find anything more on the cars, than just some passing journalist rhetoric that stated the "buggies" were being built in California and they'd claimed to have 735 horsepower. All the photo's I could find were either of Nassers previous QATAR sponsored rides (mostly logo in the background) and one stock photo of an airborne Trophy Truck (which I was pretty sure from the get go was not what the vehicles would be based on).

    From what you say Strong Bad, the vehicle will be petty much just a "Dakar farkled" Jeffries sandrail with a windscreen, a reconfigured fuel tank, a restricted detuned motor and some sand ladders in the back? :lol3

    Couple that with the fact that the whole project has been "assembled" in only months (nothing like even the 5 to eight years R&D and experience the Gordon/SPEED effort has behind it) and the fact there are going to be two pretty big ego's in two of the drivers seats (remember Carlos and Nascar Al Attiyahs panel swapping exploits in 2011...? :wink:)... all this wrapped up in an 11th hour deal to get to the start podium in January...? :evil

    Yeah Strong Bad... I gotta say that I agree with you, and refer back to my first reaction/comment on the subject, earlier in the thread; :deal

    (this has sprinklings of the whole Gordon/Nasser 2012 scenario written all over it :wink:)


    :D pass the popcorn please... :1drink:lurk
    #63
  4. Flood

    Flood F5lood.

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    At least there's the potential for HUGE drama - with the 2 primadonnas on one team.
    It will be fun to watch.
    #64
  5. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    :nod :deal

    [​IMG]

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    #65
  6. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad n00balicious

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    It was one of those super-blinged out twin turbo nitrus burning dune hoppers that gave the Qatar guys huge boners and apparently caused all of the blood to rush from their head leaving nothing to power their brains. Jefferies does build TTs and class 1 cars race cars. However, building Trophy Trucks and Class 1 buggies does not qualify anyone to build a competitive Dakar car. The fact that Nasser doesn't realize that and chose his car builder off of a friend's sand car shows what a joke his program is. The entire deal is knee jerk.
    #66
  7. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    ^^^ Yeah, that's pretty much what I pictured in my mind from your first description... one of those candy apple custom painted sandrail/toys like you see the Cali flat biller crews out playing with at Glamis or Dumont on any given weekend... type :deal

    [​IMG]

    I noticed that these things have become pretty popular over in Dubai of late also... so I kind of figured that might have been where the inspiration came from. :wink:

    Looking at the Jeffries Racing website, I see that they have a spec' Class 1 and Class 10 cars that they manufacture as well as TT's... but as you say; the development and prep of a Dakar program is another kettle of fish. I don't doubt that they can build an a-arm "buggy" with a body on it that can run fast in offroad terrain or even a TT capable of running with the SCORE/BITD boys in the US races...

    [​IMG]

    ... but DAKAR requires a whole different timeframe and development program... and a significantly different "approach" (something it took RGM four or five years to figure out). So yeah, I'd lean towards thinking the learning curve is stacked against this project, given the relative short lead up and January will be (literally) the car and teams competition debut in Dakar/Rally terms.

    So, Strong Bad you're predicting that the Qatar Qid is "parked" by day 3 or 4... eh? :wink: :ear
    #67
  8. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

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    I predict the Nasser makes stage 6 and el matidor makes the white dunes of Fimabala but dnf's crossing back over the Andes...
    #68
  9. PeteN95

    PeteN95 Long timer

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    #69
  10. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    He would (should) have started on the V8 2WD project in feb/march and not gone through the process of looking for a seat with an established team, until he (finally) settled on the Jeffries program... relatively late in the year.

    Like the 2012 RGM deal... this 2013 effort is somewhat reminiscent of that of a "best last resort"... as opposed to "first choice".
    #70
  11. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad n00balicious

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    Waaaay too late to be able to present a serious effort. A serious effort takes at least a year in advance.

    Nasser did serious damage to the Hummmmbuggy motor on the first day. Rubby's bad for not setting the motor up with a rev-limiter set lower than what Rubby uses.
    #71
  12. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad n00balicious

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    Strong words from Strong Bad!!!!!:lol3

    Access to too much non-disclosable insider info makes a lot of this difficult to explain.
    #72
  13. Brads600

    Brads600 n00b

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    If you guys recall this was such the case with Nassar, And then after the fact he goes on to bad mouth RG and his crew. I will not go of the record as wishing anyone bad but...... I think this speaks to Nassar cooking the engine as well.

    video link to Stage 5 (not sure how to post in a window format, input needed)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CpBWi10Cfk&feature=related
    #73
  14. Dread Pendragon

    Dread Pendragon throttle to the donk

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    #74
  15. ArthDuro

    ArthDuro quarantined

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    #75
  16. ArthDuro

    ArthDuro quarantined

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    and a pretty crappy video of the car

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-MM5PPzqPUM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    kinda reminds me of the vid where Alfie tested the volvo last year in the treacherous environment of the quarry
    hopefully without the same results come race time

    looks like a few teams may be running evoque bodied cars
    #76
  17. ZequeArgentina

    ZequeArgentina Been here awhile

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    Some news about Nasser testing in California today. (whata week, just before Baja 1000?!?!?!)
    Any info on that?
    #77
  18. Dread Pendragon

    Dread Pendragon throttle to the donk

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    It doesn't seem like these guys are ready enough to be able to complete the Dakar. They've set themselves up to be an inspirational "overcoming challenges" racing team, which they most definitely are, but their disabilities won't be the thing that keeps them from finishing.

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CHpwWLKCbGs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


    Here's another video about them on Vimeo (won't embed)
    #78
  19. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    Re: this...^^^

    Ned Suesse (neduro) made a comment/observation prior to his Dakar debut in 2012, during his preparation/lead up to the event - which I found to be most insightful in nature;

    "A lot of people enter DAKAR with the goal of finishing... and end up geting caught up in competing..." (or words to that effect... I don't have an exact quote at hand).

    The interesting thing with this comment (which is 110% spot on) is that for many competitors (especially those that fill the bottom two thirds of the starting field, or those attempting the Dakar - any rally for that matter - for the first time) approach the event with an expressed goal, training and physical/mechanical preparation regime, that they "just want to finish"... to make the DAKAR finish line.

    It's true of both the Moto, Auto, Quad and SxS categories... competitors et out a plan/program (with consideration to budget constraints etc.) of how they are going to approach the rally, with an aim to finish...

    ... but often, once the flag drops - get caught up in the ferver of "competing".

    You know the deal... on the start line interviews it's all; "Yeah... I'm gonna take it easy, ride/drive within myself... take care of the machine... I just want to finish... the result does not matter to me..."

    Then typically (with some of the recent DAKAR's relatively easy day 1 & 2 legs) at the end of the second leg, while looking at the results sheets you will here these kind of comments; "Well geeze... I'm only 20 minutes behind so and so..." or "I was only taking it easy... and I'm in the top 100..." or similar. :norton

    Then the thought processes start to creep in; "You know... I reckon, if I just go a bit quicker tomorrow..." and there it begins. The original gameplan of "just finishing" becomes "let's press on for a result" and it is THAT which often brings the less experienced competitor undone in the long run.

    If a capable driver/navigator in a soundly prepared 4WD competition vehicle (even a relatively modest one like the Bowler Tomcats that the R2Recovery team are planning on running), drive the course to a conservative pace/time plan of "finishing" each day (within the allotted time set for each leg), then there is a better than 50% chance to achieve this. But where the wheels fall off (literally) is when the driver/vehicle start to "push" above this envelope... things break... competitors make misstakes... you get stuck/broke... time/weariness starts to take its toll... and the team slip back down through the results list (from where they otherwise would have just trundled along) and the metaphoric "snow ball" catches up with them.

    There is a French driver who has won the T2 (production category) of DAKAR multiple times (I think more than any other), and in the past one of his prime tactics for DAKAR was to NOT even look at the result sheet until the rest day. His gameplan was to drive the car to the terrain, and his understanding of what the vehicle could sustain/maintain (remember the T2 vehicles are by design - basically production vehicles equipped with some saftey and security equipment, but very limited modifications in terms of performance, suspension and chassis).

    Once to the rest day (halfway point of the rally) he would look to the results. Often, many of his competitors were broken/further back because of overtaxing the material... and "Jippe" - still with a vehicle in good condition, could "compete" for the second week, having kept the material in good condition.

    Similar stories of the Marathon and Malle Moto riders in the Moto category are also true.

    Although the Race 2 Recovery team have no prior DAKAR/rally experience... obviously their time in military service and the skills/training they have from that put them in good stead. The fact that they have been injured in service of their country and the disabilities that they suffered as a result, make their challenge one that the media will - obviously - show interest in.

    In the past there have been amputees/paraplegics that have entered the DAKAR and finished...some have done exceedingly well. That these ex-servicemen can take on the task and "finish", I believe is achievable provided that they stick to the expressed goal of "finishing"... Given their military background, it is not inconcievable that these guys can set that mission plan and follow it to execution... if they do so and not get caught up in the "race" then there is no reason they can't do it...*

    And of course the CPR and rescue demonstrations for the media, assorted dignitries and ladies of the Woman's Military Auxilliary all make for good PR eh? :D

    *Mind you one thing I would be planning - for the triple amputee (I assume he is the co-driver) is a set of second controls in the car - so when they get bogged in dunes, the able bodied (driver) can hop out an work the sand ladders/tow strap etc.) as I can't imagine flip flopping around with three prosthesis is going to be all that effective when bogged the Peru/Fiambal dunes etc.

    For the 2013 Dakar, it does not seem there will be the "easy" transport/gravel stages the first couple of days... some hard core stages more or less from the start.

    Roll on january... good luck everyone! :clap
    #79
  20. ArthDuro

    ArthDuro quarantined

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    some hooning in the sand in a toyota


    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0cRhrbtQvyg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    #80