2013 Dakar Pre-Event Discussion

Discussion in 'Racing' started by SafariBerg, Mar 18, 2012.

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  1. doyle

    doyle RallyRaidReview-ing

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    Shame to hear but it falls in line with some information given to me back in August. I'm not surprised.
    #81
  2. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

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    From ASO

    “Cyril Despres, on the rally of Morocco, you completed another phase of your preparation with success. How ready would you say you are?
    This year, I decided on a less strenuous racing programme. I took part in the Desafio Litoral, which helped kick-start my preparation, then the rally of Morocco, where I reckon I was at about 80% of my capacities. All the main names were present on the rally, so winning was a real confidence booster, especially since, in my mind, the rally was more like a sprint, whereas I feel I'm most efficient over long distances. Despite that, I managed to win, even if I did endure a day where I lost time, but I never lost my concentration.

    Your rival Marc Coma crashed. You suffer this sort of incident even more rarely. Do you think this is due to superior technique in this domain?
    Crashes always comes down to the smallest details, you have to be very humble about it. I could have fallen off the bike. In fact, it happens to me in training. However, I know that the work I do is also worth my while. I don't know many riders who shut themselves away like I'm doing at the moment, for a whole week in a sports fitness centre. I look after my body, because it's what wins me races and earns my living. It's true that I've not had any major accidents for a long time, touch wood.

    “The gap will have closed once they can
    beat us”

    Some of the younger riders' performances are becoming more of a threat. Have you sensed that the gap between them and the duo that you form with Coma is shrinking?
    Firstly, I'm delighted for the discipline that there are so many “official” riders, whether with Huqsvarna, Honda, Sherco, Yamaha or even KTM. Since I've been involved in this sport, there's never been so many of us. Some riders have set their sights high, like Barreda, Fish, Gonçalves, Rodrigues, etc., but you can say that the gap will have closed once they can beat us; until then, it doesn't mean a thing. For the moment, they are competitive, but they don't scare me.

    Do you think you have found the winning formula for the Dakar?
    I think I've found the right tools to win: my preparation, the team structure, the bike and my experience. That said, there are still a lot of special stages to ride before you can even think about winning! Another thing is that I'm getting better year after year. I'm working even harder on the physical aspect and I'm managing to find better form, even though I'm not riding that much. We will carry out a few test sessions with the team until 9th November, but afterwards until the start of the Dakar, I can count on my hand the number of hours I'll spend on the bike. Since the last edition, I've covered more kilometres on a bicycle than on my motorbike”.
    #82
  3. too old

    too old Keen supporter

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    Spoken like a true Alien :rofl:rofl:rofl
    #83
  4. italrally

    italrally Been here awhile

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    from italian blog: my blog.it


    La domanda sorge spontanea visti i recenti sviluppi, soprattutto nell'ambito enduro. Il pignoramento ed il sequestro di tutto il materiale del team Bordone Ferrari è avvenuto al rientro dal Marocco, dopo la gara di metà ottobre e la sorpresa è stata totale. Il mondo dell'enduro è ancora sotto choc per quanto avvenuto, e questo non giova di certo ad un ambiente che già non attraversa un periodo facile.


    27 moto, e poi furgoni e camion. Questo il 'bottino' risultato dalla maxi confisca avvenuta nei capannoni milanesi del Bordone Ferrari. L'ufficiale giudiziario li ha aspettati al varco ed appena rientrati dal Marocco, due martedì fa, gli uomini del team si sono trovati davanti gli agenti incaricati del maxi sequestro. Giusto il tempo di aprire i cancelli, di portare dentro i mezzi e l'ufficiale è arrivato, mentre si stavano lavando i furgoni.

    Tutte le moto presenti, da enduro, sono state bloccate ed ora il materiale verrà utilizzato per ripagare i tantissimi debiti che il team aveva accumulato con moltissimi fornitori. Si sono salvate le uniche moto da rally - quelle che esistono in realtà, perchè pare che le 4 moto previste per la Dakar non siano neanche state ultimate - e sono scampate al sequestro perchè si trovano in Spagna, a casa del capo meccanico Fernando. Altre moto invece sono ancora in Africa, impegnate in una gara. Tutti gli altri mezzi ora, però, sono nelle mani della giustizia che facilmente dovrebbe metterli all'asta per recuperare tutti i soldi che andranno poi a saldare i conti in sospeso di davvero troppe persone.

    Restano a piedi così non solo i piloti, ma anche i meccanici che avevano creduto in questo progetto e vi si erano dedicati anima e cuore, così come appunto i piloti stessi. Molti di loro non hanno ancora incassato lo stipendio, e sembra che la cosa veramente vada già avanti da qualche mese, e non si sa bene cosa ne sarà di loro adesso che la Bordone Ferrari ha chiuso i battenti.

    Il dubbio resta per i rally. Cosa faranno ora Alessandro Botturi e Jordi Viladoms? Parlo di lorodue perchè Paolo Ceci e Gerard Farres sembrano essere già fuori dal team. Dopo il rally in Marocco i piloti sono rimasti giù in Africa e stanno affrontando la gara di Merzouga, organizzata da Edo Mossi ma al loro rientro bisognerà prendere una decisione per la Dakar, per capire chi ci andrà. Con i francesi della ASO infatti, non si scherza...se vuoi partecipare devi pagare tutto, in anticipio, altrimenti a Lima non ci arrivi.

    google translation:

    The question arises of recent developments, especially in the enduro. The seizure and confiscation of all material in the Bordone Ferrari team happened to return from Morocco, after the race in mid-October and the surprise was total. The world enduro is still in shock over what happened, and this is not conducive to a certain setting which does not cross an easy time.


    27 motorbikes, vans and trucks and then. This is the 'booty' result from the maxi confiscation took place in the halls of Milan Bordone Ferrari. The bailiff them waited at the gate and just returned from Morocco, two Tuesdays ago, the men's team found themselves in front of the officials responsible for the maxi seizure. Just enough time to open the gates to let in the media and the officer arrived, as they were washing the vans.

    All these bikes, enduro, were blocked and now the material will be used to repay the many debts that the team had accumulated with many suppliers. They saved the only motorcycle rally - those that exist in reality, because it seems that the 4 bikes provided for the Dakar are not even been completed - and survived the kidnapping because they are in Spain, home of the chief mechanic Fernando. Other bikes but I'm still in Africa, engaged in a race. All other means now, though, are in the hands of justice that should easily put up for auction to recover all the money that will then settle outstanding accounts of too many people.

    Still walk so not only the drivers but also the mechanics who believed in this project and we were devoted heart and soul, just as the pilots themselves. Many of them have not yet received the salary, and it seems that what is really going on for a few months already, and no one knows what will happen to them now that the Bordone Ferrari has closed its doors.

    The question remains for the rally. What will they do now Alessandro Botturi and Jordi Viladoms? I'm talking about because lorodue Paolo Ceci and Gerard Farres seem to be already out of the team. After the rally in Morocco drivers were down in Africa and are facing the race of Merzouga, organized by Edo Mossi but on their return will need to make a decision for the Dakar, to understand who we will be. With the French ASO in fact, do not mess around ... if you want to participate you must pay for everything, IN ADVANCE, otherwise in Lima do not get it.

    bad story, somebody knew the real background ?
    #84
  5. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

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    :huh


    Bad news indeed. I was looking forward to seeing how BF was going to do and was equally looking forward to their new bike....
    #85
  6. tehdutchie

    tehdutchie Long timer

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    Feeling sorry for all the mechanics who have put in so much time and effort and now it has all fallen apart. :cry
    #86
  7. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    QUOTE=Deadly99;19974982]:huh


    Bad news indeed. I was looking forward to seeing how BF was going to do and was equally looking forward to their new bike....[/QUOTE]

    better look quick..

    http://www.bordoneferrari.com/rally_gallery_Mi1.html

    I feel bad for Jordi Arcarons working so hard building the team
    #87
  8. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    http://www.mfe-live.com/index.php/h...e-ferrari-en-importante-difficulte-financiere



    For months it hard, mouth problems encountered by the Bordone-Ferrai Racing circulate and amplify the hour ...

    The team consists of six pilots, a technical staff adapted a manager Jordi Arcarons found since last June in an impasse! The funnel narrows over the weeks. Thus we learn that the whole team has put an ultimatum to the leaders of the box to stabilize the financial situation quickly. We talk about next week.

    They are not alone! Suppliers are sounding the alarm ... It is also ensured that the construction of the magnificent Bordone-Ferrari Motorcycle Italiana Mi1 presented in June in large pump is stopped and it will certainly never happen!

    We also know that no contracts that bind drivers to Mr. and Mrs. Nicoletta Renato Ferrari Elisa Altieri Bordone are - for the moment - not respected ... Finally, we know that the whole team Bordone - Ferrari could be dissolved so quickly that it was created.

    One of six drivers will be spared in this unpacking: Chaleco Lopez. Indeed, the Chilean has a very special status within the team. It has its own partners and provides its KTM machines! Save that for the Dakar 2013 while others, Jordi Viladoms, Alessandro Botturi ... may well find themselves on foot, empty pockets and watch the 2013 edition of the Dakar on TV!

    Case to follow closely ...
    #88
  9. italrally

    italrally Been here awhile

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    Comeback from Bordone - Ferrari:

    from: http://quellidellafrica.myblog.it/archive/2012/11/06/renato-ferrari-risponde-ufficialmente.html



    Una telefonata nella mattinata e una lunga chiacchierata con Renato Ferrari arriva a dissipare tutte le nubi, o quasi, che avevano oscurato l'orizzonte. Ferrari parla del team di enduro, dei pagamenti sospesi e di quelli fatti, delle moto bloccate per sicurezza e della squadra di rally che non è affatto al Merzouga Rally, come scritto sul sito della gara http://www.merzougarally.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/E... (ed erroneamente anche da questo blog, non essendo personalmente sul posto)!




    "E' vero - comincia a dire Renato Ferrari, deus ex machina del team Bordone Ferrari - abbiamo avuto problemi con i pagamenti arretrati e siamo rimasti in sospeso con diverse cose ma questo è accaduto per una crescita esagerata..."
    In effetti queste parole Renato Ferrari le aveva usate già in passato, quando più di qualcuno, dai piloti ai meccanici lamentava qualche arretrato di stipendio e si era mormorato nell'ambiente di una ricapitalizzazione dei fondi economici, appunto. Sono poi intervenuti altri problemi "aspetti che hanno toccato la parte finanziaria" li definisce Ferrari, ed ecco spiegato il blocco dei pagamenti.
    Poi enumera le date e le scadenze. "Con TM avevamo stabilito una serie di scadenze di pagamento e una di queste era prevista al 26 di ottobre, non capisco perchè il giorno 22 loro si siano presentati con l'ufficiale giudiziario; posso pensare che la loro sia stata un'azione preventiva, ma davvero non ne capisco il motivo. Con loro avevamo stabilito due scadenze, se ricordo bene, una a ottobre appunto e l'altra al 15 di novembre".
    Le moto quindi, ora, sono state bloccate in misura cautelativa e "nessuo può toccarle o accedervi, ma questo non significa che ci siano i sigilli" ha sottolineato Ferrari. E poi parliamo di pagamenti. "Mercoledì scorso abbiamo emesso ben 72 bonifici ! Abbiamo pagato tutti quelli che avanzavano da noi: piloti, meccanici, fornitori, e poi ancora i sottofornitori dei fornitori, ecc ecc".
    A questo punto parliamo di futuro. Lasciamo stare l'enduro e pensiamo, e concentriamoci, sui rally che sono molto più vicini.
    Nonostante quello che sta scritto sul sito del Merzouga Rally nella lista dei partenti, non c'è nessun elemento del Bordone Ferrari presente alla gara ! Nè Ceci che doveva avere il numero 1, nè Botturi, nè Viladoms che era il numero 2 ! Nè tantomeno Renato Ferrari che invece è qui a casa a sistemare un po' di cose. "Abbiamo deciso di non andare in Marocco per varie ragioni, in accordo con il team manager Jordi Arcarons. I ragazzi stanno preparandosi in modo diverso al momento e non è escluso che si vada in Marocco prima di partire per la gara di gennaio".
    Ma il team da chi sarà formato? "Ci sarà il nostro Alessandro Botturi, insieme a Chaleco Lopez e Jordi Viladoms". E gli altri? "Gerard Farres non fa più parte della nostra squadra, ha preso una via diversa e ora è nelle fila di un altro team, mentre Paolo Ceci correrà all'Africa Race. Lui non aveva mai provato l'esperienza di una Dakar in Africa e così abbiamo pensato - visto che l'organizzazione dell'Africa Race ce lo ha chiesto - di mandarlo a correre lì a fine dicembre, cosa alla quale lui teneva particolarmente".
    E infine la domanda tanto attesa: con che moto correrete alla Dakar? "Useremo ancora la Ktm 450. Abbiamo deciso di non utilizzare la nostra moto, quella nuova, perchè sarebbe troppo rischioso. Il mio sogno di sviluppare una moto completamente nuova in così poco tempo non è realizzabile, me ne sono reso conto, e quindi non vogliamo rischiare. Non potrei mai permettere, nè accettare che uno dei nostri piloti resti a piedi alla Dakar per un contatto elettrico o per una sciocchezza simile. Non voglio rischiare, e per questo andremo con le Ktm classiche". E in futuro? "Continuiamo a lavorare sulla nostra moto allo scopo di renderla affidabile e nella prossima stagione, spero, potremo usarla in tutte le gare".

    google translation:

    A phone call in the morning and a long talk with Renato Ferrari arrives to dispel all the clouds, or almost, that had darkened the horizon. Ferrari talks about the team enduro, suspension of payments and those facts, the bikes locked for safety and rally team that is not the Merzouga Rally, as written on the race site http://www.merzougarally.com/wp -content/uploads/2012/10/E ... (And erroneously also from this blog, I myself am not on the spot)!


    *

    "It 's true - begin to say Renato Ferrari, deus ex machina of the Bordone Ferrari team - we had problems with the arrears and were pending with different things but that was exaggerated for growth ..."
    In fact, these words Renato Ferrari had used them in the past, when more than one person, from pilots to mechanics complained some backlog of salary and had whispered in the environment of a recapitalization of the economic funds, in fact. Then other problems are occurring "aspects that have affected the financial" Ferrari defines them, and that explains the blocking of payments.
    Then lists the dates and deadlines. "With TM we established a series of deadlines for payment and one of these was scheduled to October 26, the 22nd day do not understand why they are presented with the bailiff, I think that their was a preventive action, but really do not understand why. With them we set two deadlines, if I remember correctly, just one in October and the other on the 15th of November. "
    The motion then, now, have been locked in a precautionary measure and "nessuo can touch them or access them, but that does not mean that there are seals" said Ferrari. And then we talk about payments. "On Wednesday we have issued as many as 72 credit! We paid all those who were advancing from us: pilots, mechanics, suppliers, and again the sub-suppliers of suppliers, etc. etc.".
    At this point we are talking about the future. Forget the enduro and think, and focus, on the rally that are much closer.
    Despite what is written on the website of Merzouga Rally in the list of starters, there is no evidence in the present Bordone Ferrari in the race! Neither Ceci who had to have the number 1, or Botturi nor Viladoms that was the number 2! Nor even Renato Ferrari instead is here at home to arrange a little 'things. "We decided not to go to Morocco for various reasons, according to the team manager Jordi Arcarons. Boys are preparing in a different way at the moment and it is possible that you go in Morocco before leaving for the race in January."
    But the team will be formed by those who? "It will be our Botturi Alexander, along with Chaleco Lopez and Jordi Viladoms." And the others? "Gerard Farres is no longer part of our team, took a different path and is now in the ranks of another team, while Paolo Ceci run Africa Race. He had never had the experience of a Dakar in Africa and so we thought - since the organization has asked him to Africa Race - for him to run there at the end of December, something which kept him particularly. "
    And finally, the long awaited question: with which bike you'll run the Dakar? "We will still Ktm 450. We decided not to use our bike, the new one, because it would be too risky. My dream of developing a completely new bike in such a short time is not feasible, I realized, and therefore not want to risk it. I could never afford, nor accept that one of our drivers remains on foot to Dakar for an electrical contact or something simple. do not want to risk it, and that's why we're going with the KTM classic ". And in the future? "We continue to work on our bikes in order to make it reliable and next season I hope we can use it in all the races."
    #89
  10. tehdutchie

    tehdutchie Long timer

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    Only time will tell..
    #90
  11. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    I think KTM will once more stand highest on the podium... perhaps not 1 & 2... but they are my favour to win it. Most probable tip (for my money) is Despres to break the pattern and get two in a row... Coma's injury in Marocco was a big blow to the preparation... IF he is 100% fit by january, he has the routine to push for the win... but this is the only question.

    Chaleco is on KTM this year... and even though not on the factory squad... with the material at his disposal and the memory of "what could have been" from the Aprilia years... 2013 could be "now or never" for the Chileán champion to be the first latin American name on top of the Podium.

    I think this year we will see a motorcycle with the letter "H" take one of the other two steps of the winner dias... :wink:

    The Speedbrain team have been gaining momentum ever since the BMW program evolved into the Husqvarna program... and now they have four or five solid top 20 calibre riders on the roster, and Barreda has recently shown improved experience and speed of the front runners. The Speedbrain team were the stand out performers at the recent Rallye Maroc.

    The other big "H" team will certainly make presence felt this DAKAR. I think that Helder will put HRC up on the leader board amongst the top three positions early in week one, and make a solid bid for the crown. But something tells me (intuition) that something will go wrong (there are a million things that can) and HONDA will not be on the podium... but two bikes from them in top ten is not improbable.

    My MOTO podium tip is two KTM's (one on top) with a Husky on one of the lower two steps. :1drink
    #91
  12. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

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    Since we're predicitng :1drink

    Going into rest day

    Coma
    Barreda
    Helder
    Lopez
    Despres

    At finish line

    Coma
    Helder
    Despres
    Lopez
    Barreda


    I have a weird feeling mudboy has a breakdown/crash/mud incident, etc...can't say why...just a feeling

    Joan is fast, just not sure he can keep it together for two weeks...
    Lopez...just an unpredictable fellow, seems to have lost confidence lately
    Coma...fast and consitant..plus its his "turn" :rofl
    Helder...so many variables, new team, new bike, etc

    Wild cards...

    Sunderland. I hope he plays it cool and gets a top ten finish. Young and very promising career in front of him :nod
    Viladoms...would be great to see him podium but given his new to him team and bike....not sure
    Ullevalsetter....a contender for third..IF others mess up
    Zanol...might, just might end up in the mix


    Looks like its gonna be a good one with lots of competition within the top 20 people all jockeying for a placing in the top ten...43 more days until F5 season :clap
    #92
  13. Bluebull2007

    Bluebull2007 Adventurer

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    Deadly,your selection makes a lot of sense, except for Despres. Either he will be out or 1st or 2nd. I also think he might be out. He has been flawless four years in a row - how much longer can he keep the rubber side down at those crazy speeds.

    I think Coma is not as fast as he used to be either. Certainly they have the most pressure on them, more especially Cyril, being suspicious about the No 1 and all. Bet you Marc does not agree to swap numbers like they did this year, just to screw with him. Marc's problem is he is nursing an injury, but he should still come back strongly.

    Dont forget all the fast young guys who are fighting for a top 10 now in competition with the old Boys:

    Zanol
    Pain
    Sunderland
    Przygonski
    West (maybe not so young but oh, so fast)
    Fishy
    Botturi

    The more experienced boys being

    Gonclaves
    Svitco
    Faria
    Pedrero
    Casteau
    Viladoms
    Verhoefen
    Fretigne
    Ullevalsetter
    Czachor

    Thats 18 guys (I might be missing one or two) fighting for 4-10th place, and I think its going to be the really exciting part of the 2014 Dakar.

    Then there is are these guys out of AUs and South Africa who arent exactly slow and have considerable experience in their own right.

    Grabham
    Strange
    Curtis
    Van Niekerk

    Also guys like Pavey and Juan Carlos Salvatierra who seem to battle with mechanicals every year and otherwise could be in the top 20 easily enough. Its one helluva strong fild, the strongest by far in years and years. I think there is going to be a bit of a shake up shake up in the top ranks in 2013, with Cyril going out on a mechanical.

    So here is my prediction list:

    1) Coma
    2) Rodriguez
    3) Barreda
    4) Viladoms
    5) Zanol/Chaleco {I had to edit this, I forgot about Chaleco!}
    6) Faria
    7) Svitco
    8) Sunderland
    9) Przygonski
    10) Gonclaves

    11) Verhoefen
    12) Pedrero
    13) Ullevalsetter
    14) Casteu
    15) Curtis
    16) Pain
    17) Czachor
    18) Fretigne
    19) Fish
    20) Grabham
    #93
  14. tehdutchie

    tehdutchie Long timer

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    Thats a very long list of finishers...

    Im not so sure, i think we will see many more crashes and non finishers as the semi top is getting wider and more fighting for position will occur over the first 2 weeks.

    You're missing some of the 'Knuiman' / 'Pal Anders' types, they might end up doing well with all the crashes / engine swaps upfront.

    Imho.
    #94
  15. guns&coffee

    guns&coffee Gnarly!

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    Oh, damn. That's sexy!!
    #95
  16. Tarheel Wheeler

    Tarheel Wheeler Around

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    I'm surprised there has been no mention of Johnny Campbell by anyone. He can navigate with the best, and certainly has the speed of anyone riding on 2 wheels.

    Thoughts guys?
    #96
  17. rmhrc628

    rmhrc628 Long timer

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    He's my hero. But he's not an alien
    #97
  18. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    And then there are the "sleepers" who poke along at a good pace the first week in positions just outside the top five to ten... keep their noses clean, bikes and body in order and are in good shape to make a push in week two of the rally...

    This years DAKAR has the potential to be the best MOTO battle ever...!!! :clapWell, since last year... anyway... :wink: or the year before that...? :lol3 (just like always!?) :D:rofl
    #98
  19. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

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    I agree with ya Troy except one minor point...the attrition rate. It seems to me like the bulk of the non finishers are first timers and or the guys at the back of the pack. The top thirty have a significantly lower percentage attrition rate (not fact just an observation).

    Why? Better sorted likely (training, bike, team, experience, etc).

    Surprising in some regards as they are traveling at faster speeds. But maybe this helps in the end., less dust, less cars passing, etc


    This may, and I say may, be the first year in quite some time that people other than factory ktm have bikes that are on an equal playing field. The HRC and Husky bikes, from what we saw and heard from Maroc, might be as quick as the ktm factory bikes. If so this will likely help level the playing field. In recent years very fast and experienced riders (Jonah, Helder, etc) have quoted they just couldn't keep up on the fast pistes. You look at stage times for those specials and they are only a few seconds back. This makes me think that there are other "aliens" out there but don't have the bike to compete.

    2013 has potential for an upset :nod

    Aliens getting pushed harder than in recent years maybe? Possible that mistakes could be made by the aliens as a result?



    :lurk
    #99
  20. ZequeArgentina

    ZequeArgentina Been here awhile

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    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    I think Pizzolito should be added there.
    I am trying to be objective , not only because he is Argentinean, but he really can performed in Top 15, and may be Top ten.
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