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Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by ilyaon, Sep 26, 2012.
do I hear crickets?
Ahhh very interesting!
I went to my dealer today to check out all the changes to the F7/F8 but all the F8's are gone! soph9 bought them all
Lot's of other things I'd like to check out too but I'll have to wait for the next ones. In the meantime it would be interesting to hear more about the forks (and rear shock/mounting?)!
Yeah, same here on that rear shock. Reading that LONG thread was one of the reasons why I was initially turned off on the F800GS when shopping for a Sertao replacement. When I get a chance, I'll try and take things apart and have a look.
If there's any way of looking via simply popping the seat, I'm all ears. Or maybe an quick and easy way to snap a picture from a different angle...
Interesting BMW buying suspension parts from KTM. Wonder why they changed. Logistically it doesn't make much sense.
The F800Gs just went a spot higher on my list.....and now, abut that shock.....
A 45mm Zoke goes to a 43mm WP?
Doesn't seem right or a step in the right direction.
I'm sure there's more...
Are they adjustable? Clickers on the cap, foot or both?? 43mm, that's f%^ked, why go down in size?! I looked at a bunch of reviews all over the net and most mentioned the new shock but not one mentioned a change in the forks.
May I get some ketchup and mustard with my hat?
So they are indeed WP forks in 43mm, and both DE and international official BMW Motorrad pages are wrong, too.
One possible reason why they used those is that WP does not make a 45mm fork (that I am aware of) and their 43mm USD fork happens to share the same dimensions in the stanchions as the 45mm Zoke: 54mm diameter in the upper clamping area, and 57mm diameter in the lower. So they would still be able to use the same triple clamps.
Now the interesting question is if they are finally adjustable or at least have non-crimped cartridges, or if it's just a provider switch for the same cheap ass fork?
Interesting twist. However why would WP put a sticker on their fork saying WP, I don't know. Also, it is the first golden WP fork leg I ever see.
Well, size doesn't always mean better. There are a myriad of shock options and things like air shocks, progressive versus straight springs, dampening rate, etc. can affect a ride a lot more than the size.
But yeah, a reduction in size w/o any additional information means it's a downgrade.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/84763434@N07/8033070920/" title="Untitled by pmrowczynski, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8177/8033070920_8615d42199_n.jpg" width="320" height="240" alt="Untitled"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/84763434@N07/8033067808/" title="Untitled by pmrowczynski, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8462/8033067808_5a4d1f6f7a_n.jpg" width="320" height="240" alt="Untitled"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/84763434@N07/8033170324/" title="Untitled by pmrowczynski, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8456/8033170324_16d89b13dd_n.jpg" width="320" height="240" alt="Untitled"></a>
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/84763434@N07/8033173526/" title="Untitled by pmrowczynski, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8461/8033173526_e04e48caf5_n.jpg" width="320" height="240" alt="Untitled"></a>
Eenteresting. Now I wonder what else is wrong on BMWs spec sheets.
Luxury didn't include the comfort seat? Would have been a better option than the Vario mounts.
So the clamping diameter is the same and were used in a lot of KTM bikes. Interesting, and the wheels are turning. What model number are they?
I'm not suggesting that size has anything to do with dampening but decreased diameter means less rigid forks (everything else being equal or course). 48mm WPs from a KTM will flex less than the 45mm Marzocchi's on the pre 2013 F800gs and those will flex less than the 43mm WPs on a new F800gs.
Those 43's don't look like they have any adjustments anywhere. Appears to be the same allen bolt on the bottom and standard cap on the top. Like Lukas said, hopefully they didn't crimp the bottom of the cartridge this time allowing re-valves to be preformed. Maybe the guys with the 2013-newer F8's will have some luck finding adjustable WP donor internals like some of us have done with the Marzocchi Shiver 45s
Love the GoPro setup!
This is obviously not a question about upgrading/changing the bike. Probably WP just offered their 43 forks 5 % cheeper than Marzocchi. The big crowd will be happy with this, a small group of heavy-users will not.
It is hard to understand why BMW can´t make a "R" alternative with racing-shocks for some extra money.
I agree, these are clearly not "real" WP forks, even if they are now manufactured by WP. Their design has nothing to do with the WP MXMA forks, neither the closed nor the open cartridge version. Instead it is the same cheap un-adjustable BMW spec as the 08-12 models, with even thinner sliders.
Both fork bottoms and caps look the same as the previous generation, none offer any adjusters:
PatrickM's 2013 on the left, Motorfiets (ex) 2010 fork on the right:
Lukas, got to say I appreciate many of your posts (e.g. on thumpers talking about rear pegs and the subframes) so let me ask a few questions of you or any other readers, without trying to offend...
What makes a real WP fork? The reason I ask is that I have seen many discussions centered around a change in manufacturing process (e.g. Mercedes and Chrysler, Rotax being manufactured in China) but the end result is still owned by the parent company. It's still technically a WP fork, even though we may perceive a downgrade in quality - which I am not disagreeing with, but it's an opportunity for WP and for BMW if this were truly a WP fork!
How valuable is the multi-adjustment? Yes, 100% agree it provides a great deal of flexibility, but when I look at ESA today, I have 3 settings (NORM, COMF and SPORT) which may take away from the ability to do 1/4 to 4 full turns for the dampening settings. Does a myriad of settings take away from the enjoyment of the machine (aka set it and forget it), versus having a lot of fine tuning which for the most part confuses people who simply want to buy a bike and ride?
Can the technology of WP be better than what BMW had before? I know crappy straight springs, weak seals and bad dampening settings can ruin the bike in a myriad of situations, can this setting be "good enough" for what most people use it for?
Do we think that WP has in the back of their mind that this is the entry to a larger BMW market - to see how their stuff handles (a pig of a bike 600 lbs, not counting gear which can push this bike to the 1000# mark), and potentially provide an upgrade solution later on?
Without taking it apart and looking at the design, can we determine what type of WP suspension is in there, e.g. from the sticker and potentially what could be changed?
Suspension is critical. No one should disagree with this as this allows us to keep the tire in contact with the ground, and handle weight transfers without killing the rider (looping or bottoming out). Tires are the first things I change to suit my manner of style, suspension is near the top of the list, but not the top. Why? Because it's so damn expensive. I would love a "Chinese menu" of options, but no manufacturer allows such customization and the change out is a PITA so we wind up with multiple bikes.
Very valuable, not only because you can tailor your ride according to surface and style, but also because you can compensate for rider weight and spring stiffness to an extent.
At the end of the day you will not keep changing settings all the time, but it will take some time to arrive at the settings which work best overall for you. You just can never find them though without some extent of adjustability.
I agree. - I think the forks on my wheel barrow work better.
If the forks weren't lame enough - when they work. - - My friend just bought a brand new 2013 F800 GS. Within 3 days- Under 400 miles, we walked outside to get on our bikes, and noticed fork oil dripping out of both of her forks. Back to the shop with a brand new bike, with leaky forks.
For the kind of money a person shells out, - I'd expect a lot more.
I hate my forks on my 2011 F800GS. I bottom out - easily. I'm looking to replace the entire system.
I'm a little annoyed at the amount of after market money that is required to make a bike worth riding from the F800 GS. More than a little annoyed.