2013 Honda CB1100

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by cabanza, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. ZappBranigan

    ZappBranigan Still Riding

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Oddometer:
    481
    Location:
    Englewood, CO
    BTW, the real conundrum WRT big naked bikes is the cost/market segment ratio.

    As I said, the NH 750 was a success because it was marketed as a bargain bike.

    The other big nakeds failed because the people who wanted it couldn't afford it, and the people who could afford it, didn't want it.

    $10k is an awful lot for a basic bike like the CB1100. Harley, Triumph and Moto Guzzi all sell decent 'standard' bikes for less than that.

    If they could bring it to market at the same price point as the likes of the Bonnie, the V7 or the basic Sportster, they'd have a real contender, but my fear is that they've priced it out of the reach of the people who would be most interested.
  2. dirtdreamer50

    dirtdreamer50 long time rider

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,437
    Location:
    texas coast
    When one has he flu, one has time to play on the internet. I found that what was just said about the price being too high for the market, may just be true. I found that the 1969 CB750 sold for $1395, and correcting for 2012 inflationary dollars, we have an $8700+ price point. Unfair comparison some say? Let's use the 1983 CB1100F, their 11 sec quarter miler, with every one of Honda's latest advances. It retailed at $3685 in '83, and in 2012 dollars that's $8500+ .

    The F had a "Race" tuned engine, anti dive front end, latest comstar wheels, etc, compared to the new 1100's detuned engine, fully non adjustable front end and 35 year old comstar wheels, at about a $1500 premium over what it looks like Honda could profitably sell it for to the public.

    I'm sure a lot more went into designing the 1100, but it was built to a price point for Japanese consumers, who have the pick of everything the big 4 builds, and had to make it competitive to sell any in that highly competitive market. Me thinks they are taking advantage of middle aged American nostalgia, and that may bite them in the butt, sales wise. With a Bonneville selling at $8800 or less for an SE that tightens up the market pricing. No one from Japan called and asked my opinion, though, so I left it here for all to peruse and postulate.
  3. HapHazard

    HapHazard Waiting for Gudenov

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,567
    Location:
    Central CT
    ^Comstar wheels were "com"posite in that they had a cast aluminum rim riveted to two steel "star" spoke halves. No modern Honda (since about 1984) has used them (which I think is a good thing, because they are, um, lacking in pulchritude). Please don't call cast aluminum wheels "Comstars". Thank you.

    Yes, it is interesting to update MSRPs to modern times, but also consider that a 1969 VW Beetle was $1800 - that is approximately $10,900 today. The cheapest car VW sells today is a Jetta for $15,545. Remember that the Almighty Dollar isn't quite as almighty as it used to be versus the Euro or the Yen. Sad but true.

    I'd say the CB1100 is a very good value in a new, warrantied 2013 Honda motorcycle.
  4. dirtdreamer50

    dirtdreamer50 long time rider

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,437
    Location:
    texas coast

    I used the term "Comstar", because that was how they were referred in some article I read about the 1100, over the past several months. I know they aren't actual Comstar wheels, but were designed to look like previously marketed ones. A retro reference, was all it was...You are welcome.
  5. espacef1fan

    espacef1fan Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    765
    Location:
    Clarksville, TN
    I would love to see a XR1200 vs CB1000 review....They could throw the ZRX1200 in there just to be fun....
  6. dirtdreamer50

    dirtdreamer50 long time rider

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,437
    Location:
    texas coast
    Never seen that one, but it would be a fun read. Had an '05 ZZR1200, basically the same as the ZRX, and it lived in it's own world. The fun factor of an XR1200 is very high up to around 85mph. The ZZR was a PITA at that speed. My XR tops put at 121mph. The ZZR came into its own at that speed. It cruised at 135+ like the XR at 65, but with wind protection.

    If you want a killer thrill at a bargain price, go find a ZZR1200....
  7. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2007
    Oddometer:
    9,763
    Location:
    Tennessee
    crying for the ZR1100 (Zephyr). I went to take it for a test ride fully expecting to buy it. I was disappointed, and bought a VX800 instead. It was $2k less, and just a better ride imo.

    I think one thing that hurts I4's is the way they sound. Mechanical valve train and cam chain clatter turns me off. Harley's push rods and hydraulic valves sound better. I think sound is an often overlooked factor when it comes to moving bikes off the showroom floor.
  8. Gregster

    Gregster Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Oddometer:
    995
    Location:
    New Brunswick, Canada

    Oh but I think the sound of an air cooled inline four is pure music to my ears compared to the jarring primitive cacophony of an HD twin. I used to love the sound of my old CB900F and my current Z1000 liquid cooled I-4 just doesn't have the same mojo as the old CB. I am certain this new CB has been designed and tuned to provide that sweet aural experience that will evoke those warm fuzzy feelings the same way the old ones did. There are folkes out there that can appreciate what this bike is, a celebration of Honda's heritage including the audible one. I've always appreciated Honda's attention to details and unique style and to the right audience this bike hits all the right buttons. Sadly most North Americans want more perceived bad-ass HD image bullshit with their beautiful chrome, shiny rich paint, and cooling fins and have a hard time accepting that those same details can be found in a Japanese standard motorcycle.
    I would love to own a brand new CB.
  9. dogjaw

    dogjaw plays well alone

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,454
    Location:
    between the Ozarks and the Ouachitas
    Not a review from a credible media outlet, but I rode the XR1200 and the CB1000 back to back, while I still owned my 03 919... After trying to muscle the HD through some roundabouts, I couldn't wait to get on the Honda; no comparison IMO concerning handling, finish, etc, with the naked Honda. That being said, there wasn't enough difference in the 919 and the 1000 to justify the difference I was going to have to pay to "upgrade". I stupidly sold the 9 later when I started modding my dr650, I sorely miss that bike, will probably buy another unless the CB1100 or even the CB500 don't grab me first...
  10. JerryH

    JerryH Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    5,959
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    Ok, most of that makes sense. In this country, we have cruisers and sport bikes. We used to have touring bikes, but the Honda Goldwing has taken over that segment, and is the only one left. Yes BMW has that K1600GTL, which many consider to be a touring bike and a competitor to the Goldwing. But these two bikes couldn't be more different. The Goldwing is a touring bike in the very comfortable "kick back and cruise" sense. The BMW is a "sport touring" bike, which is less comfortable and requires more physical effort to ride. For me and many others, the comfort factor will always win out.

    Sport bikes are basically roadracers with lights. To me sport riding has always been about handling. Yes it takes some work to ride a sport bike on a curvy road, but the bikes riding position shouldn't try to kill you. Most sport bike buyers today buy a bike because of it's top speed or how well it does in a drag race, which has nothing to do with how it handles. That's why I refer to such bikes as "crotch rockers", as it is all about power and speed, and nothing about handling. Many people say that bikes like the Ninja 650, ER-6N, Ninja 500, GS500, YZ1, YZ6, Honda NC700X, all 3 CB500 models and a number of other such bikes are "standards", but they aren't. These are what I call sport bikes. They handle great, don't have as much power, or cost as much, and most important, have much more sensible ergos than the hardcore "supersports" But their riding position is still too uncomfortable to be considered standard. The CB750 and CB250 Nighthawks were standards. The Suzuki TU250 and Triumph Bonneville are standards. The W650 is a standard (and is IMO the most beautiful Japanese bike ever made) The late '70s/early '80s "UJM"s are what I consider standards. Bikes with a very upright riding position, but without forward pegs and buckhorn bars or drag bars on risers. Their riding position is very much like sitting in a chair, like riding on a modern small displacement scooter, say the Yamaha Zuma 125. This is an all day comfortable scooter, but "does not" have a cruiser riding position. I'm hoping the CB1100 has this kind of riding position, and is not a sport bike that looks like a standard.

    As for cruisers, I have been riding on the street since 1975. My first street bike was a Suzuki GT380, definitely a standard. My first brand new streetbike was an '81 Suzuki GS450L, a cruiser. It was not a Harley copy, but had the cruiser riding position, which I found extremely comfortable. I have owned 46 motorcycles/scooters since then, and a good part of them have been cruisers. Why? Not because of the look. Not because of the Harley image. (not a single one of them has been a Harley) I bought and rode cruisers because of their extremely comfortable riding position. I became interested in touring (long distance riding) at a young age, but could not afford a real touring bike. Cruisers fir the bill perfectly. They were smaller, cheaper, and all day comfortable. While I now have a '95 Goldwing (now 18 years old), I also have a cruiser parked in the garage. I have put more mileage per year on it than on the Goldwing, and there has been no commuting. Unlike most cruisers, this one does not have loud pipes, or fringed covers on the grips. It does have a windshield, bolt on saddlebags, both rider and passenger backrests, a luggage rack, a T Bag, and a tank bag. It is dirty and has quite a few scratches. It is not a showbike, it gets ridden. It handles a lot better than you would probably think for a cruiser. I have put 77,000 miles on it in 10 years. This cruiser is an '02 model, but an '85 design, and was sold with no changes other than paint from '85-'06. It is proven reliable.

    If Honda (or anyone else) can make a bike this comfortable and this practical that looks like a standard, I will buy it. That is, IF I can afford it. Honda's plan to keep prices high and volumes low may prevent that. That may work for some companies that have the name, heritage, and pedigree to pull it off, but Honda has none of those things. I had a motorized bicycle once that had a Honda engine on it. There was NOTHING wrong with the CB750 Nighthawk, it was one of the best bikes Honda ever built, and I will always regret not having bought one, but you can't buy everything. My reasons for not buying one certainly had nothing to do with the bike itself. It was a very nice looking bike, and completely competent in every way, including it's hydraulic valves.

    If Honda tries to sell the CB1100 as a "boutique" bike, then it will fail. The CB750 was actually a better bike than the Kawasaki Zephyr 750 someone mentioned, yet it cost less. If a bike is going to sell here, it will have to meet a price point. When considering a new bike, the very first thing I look at is price. I'm not looking for gadgets or features that serve no purpose, or could (like ABS) actually be dangerous, I am looking for a basic bike that is comfortable and reliable, with acceptable performance. I don't plan to race it, or put it in a bike show. The simple fact that Honda is even offering a non ABS model of the CB1100 is enough to get positive attention from me, plus, yes, it does look great.

    One thing that does puzzle me, is that Honda is trying to compare the CB1100 to the original CB750K0. The CB750K0 designation applies only to the 1969 version, also known as the "sand cast" version. The 1970 and up models of the SOHC CB750 were known as "K1", not "K0" There is certainly nothing "innovative" about the CB1100, it's about as basic as you can get, using mostly decades old technology. That is what attracts me to it. I have a serious aversion to "innovative" I still don't see why they couldn't have kept it even simpler, and made it a SOHC with 2 valves per cylinder.
  11. dirtdreamer50

    dirtdreamer50 long time rider

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,437
    Location:
    texas coast
    "I still don't see why they couldn't have kept it even simpler, and made it a SOHC with 2 valves per cylinder."

    Just a guess here, but probably because of today's world wide emissions laws. A SOHC/2 valve engine of 1100ccs tuned for today's lean burn requirements couldn't produce enough HP to make the bike it is in, desirable to own. Honda hasn't built sohc engines in a loooong time, trough any of their divisions. To spend the money and time needed to redevelop a SOHC that met their needs would be cost prohibitive, considering it would be used in only one model of motorcycle.

    Checking on cycle-ergos site, I found that the new 1100 has a tighter rider triangle for me than my XR does. Same HP, and similar tq specs. Same fuel tank size, and the XR shows better mpg numbers, I average 43mpg overall. I am hoping that the CB really rocks my riding world, but at this point don't see the improvements needed over my current XR to do so.
  12. RedRocket

    RedRocket Yeah! I want Cheesy Poofs

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2003
    Oddometer:
    22,752
    Location:
    SoCal
    "Dangerous" ABS.:norton
  13. JerryH

    JerryH Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    5,959
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ

    It is now fairly well known that ABS is dangerous when you don't have much traction, the very situation it would seem to be the most beneficial in. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=852073

    I found several Youtube videos of ABS bikes crashing when the wheel broke traction on wet or otherwise slippery surfaces. It may not allow the wheel to completely lock up, but it does come close enough to put you down if you have almost no traction at all. Many don't know this, and believe that in any situation, no matter what it is, ABS will prevent them from crashing. Even the front brake on my old '66 Triumph, which was almost impossible to lock up on the road, would send me sliding on a surface with very little traction.

    Many people are willing to spend a fortune for ABS, because they somehow think it makes the bike crashproof. It doesn't, but even as long as it's been around, many still seem to think that way.
  14. markjenn

    markjenn Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2003
    Oddometer:
    10,602
    Location:
    Bellingham, WA
    I don't usually get involved in these ridiculous ABS arguments, but I can't let this one pass.

    The argument that ABS is dangerous because it doesn't prevent all crashes is like arguing that helmets are dangerous because they don't prevent all head injuries. It's almost comically illogical.

    - Mark
  15. Dave in Wi

    Dave in Wi Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,148
    Location:
    Madison WI (40 Square Miles Surrounded By Reality)
    In that thread JerryH points to they are talking about dual sport bikes (big ones) and I agree ABS is not desirable off road. Not too many people will be off-roading the CB1100.

    Just as an aside I saw one of the folks also deleted his fuel injection. Must love to clean carbs. I hope to never clean one again. :-)
  16. JerryH

    JerryH Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    5,959
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ

    Not relevant to the CB1100, But I deleted the fuel injection, and all the electronics and emissions crap from my '93 Chevy truck. It had TBI injection. I ripped off all the electronics, including the ECU, removed the smog pump, and the catalytic converter, installed an aftermarket manifold and four barrel carb, and headers and a true dual exhaust. It was a little more involved than that, but not much. It now runs (and sounds) much better, and just makes me smile, knowing it is free of all that govt crap that it never needed in the first place. The simple fact that it now runs better than it did is absolute proof that none of that technology was necessary in the first place.

    An 1100cc bike didn't used to be for a beginner, and you would think that anyone buying one would have some idea how to ride, but seeing as how many choose a GSXR1000 or a Hayabusa as their first bike kinda blows that idea away. Technology cannot compensate for stupid.

    As far as the CB1100, It just might be a winner. Kawasaki tried to sell the W650 for $6500 13 years ago, and wondered why it didn't sell. An 1100cc bike that looks good for $9999 today seems like a much better deal. It is within my price range (but just barely) and my main bike, an 11 year old Vulcan 750 is about worn out. Ergonomics will determine whether I give the non ABS version of the CB1100 consideration or not. If it feels like a second gen EX500, I would not be able to ride it no matter how good it looks. That is what turned me off to the ZRX1200, a bike I otherwise loved. A chance to have the Eddie Lawson Replica I coveted so much 30 years ago, but can no longer ride.
  17. DesmoTull

    DesmoTull Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    100
    Nobody took pictures at the DC bike show?
  18. Ginger Beard

    Ginger Beard I have no soul

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Oddometer:
    8,674
    Location:
    Sunny Northern Cuba (aka: South Florida)

    Is it possible that in this case one has something to with the other ? :hmmmmm
  19. DesmoTull

    DesmoTull Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    100
    Guys,

    I'm sure there's other threads you can discuss your thoughts on ABS, ad nauseum...

    :dhorse
  20. Eddy Alvarez

    Eddy Alvarez Always dreaming of the next big ride!

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,806
    Location:
    Chester,VA
    :loco:lol2:scratchLOL! Oh, Jerry, please stop! My stomach is hurting! :loco:lol2:loco

    http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/1858/Motorcycle-Photo-Gallery/Honda-Collection-Hall-Tour.aspx

    http://www.obxmotorcycle.com/hondacyclehistory.html

    http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/history-honda-motorcycle.html

    http://www.vf750fd.com/Joep_Kortekaas/honda_race_history.html

    I took pic's at the DC show, will get them up this week.