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Discussion in 'Ridiculous streetbikes with 6 CPUs and too much HP' started by goodcat8, Apr 23, 2012.
They're not building it for us anymore, Dan. They're building it for BMW riders and hairdressers.
It will look rad parked next to a sweet van though!
It's going to work wonders on last year's new model prices!
similar to what you find on street bike forks vrs off-road fork.
the brake calipers are in different positions too
- High quality suspension components from WP Suspension
- Fully adjustable WP USD telescopic fork with separate rebound and compression damping
i read that as the regular suspension will be missing adjustments
I have to admit the new 1190s look better than I thought they would after seeing some of the spy photos over the last few months. As others have said, the KTM engineers have addressed many of the issues that 950/990 Adventure riders have found lacking.
Visually, I like that the new model has the engine more exposed and visible. Its a great engine, why cover it with bodywork? The new swingarm (a la 690) is striking, and the new 1190s appear to have a larger diameter tubing exiting the Y-pipe collector before entering the exhaust. I wonder if the stated fuel capacity includes the intank fuel pump or is strictly fuel? The large single exhaust reminds me of the 690 Enduro exhaust ...visibly larger than we expect (but large enough for a diesel engine!) - I am certain exhaust manufacturers are rejoicing over large future sales.
I have no plans to sell my 2010 Adventure because of the new 1190 Adventure models, but if I see a new 800/850cc dispacement "junior" Adventure, that might tempt me enough to switch over. I expect KTM to address that vacancy in their model lineup.
I will wait for the 3rd 1190 edition with 225 HP in two or three years, and then I do my order...
Perhaps they have something in blue
I don't know about the hairdresser part, but clearly they are building a street oriented bike targeted at the segment of the Beemer crowd who might be looking for some additional performance.
But to your main point, even KTM is now using a different definition of "Adventure" compared to what it used to be, at least in my book.
It is not so much what the 1190 is that aggravates the shit out of me, rather it is what the 990 could have been with a bit more development effort on the part of KTM (and, of course, they offer not a 690 Adventure).
The 1190 is clearly in a different segment of the market and, I believe, it will ultimately be very successful.
It seems that the 1190 lineup is offering an adventure bike (the R) at least as capable offroad as the current non-R 990.
So what is really missing is the high suspension model which I believe it will arrive as an 800, as soon as the current stock of 990's sells out.
A poor replacement to bear the "Adventure" title of the original LC8...
<HR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #575757; COLOR: #575757" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by clintnz
Crashbars.... but an unprotected underslung exhaust... Piss off! :huh
These two pictures explain perfectly the way I feel (let down) by the new 1190 (miss)Adventure...
Sadly the new design brief of this latest 1190 is not going to lend itself to this kind of application (and there are 1000's of other photo's that illustrate my point)... and even though I am sure that there is some cock-wad out there who will put a sump guard on one and take it out in the muck and mire... just to prove to themselves the much bandied about cliché of "yeah... but it's not the bike that makes the rider... you can make any bike an adventure bike... there's blokes that have crossed the Amazon on R1's... " blah, blah, blah, etc. etc.
The KTM 950/990 "ADVENTURE" is unique... it is THE quintessential large capacity offroad/onroad motorcycle that genuinely can do both... and do it well! While there are a lot of "Adventure bikes" that handle the chore of long touring road miles, combined with gravel roads and forest trails, long range fuel and luggage carrying capacity... NONE of them has quite the same level of offroad/technical terrain ability and finess. And it's been stated in confirmed in tests and rider reviews thousands of times (by journo's, industry insiders, impartial test riders and owners alike)... even owners of other "Adventure bikes" will (if you get them off the record) admit that the KTM 950/990 is a true "dirt bike" that performs quite admirably on the road as well. This latest 1190 is just another in the long line of "road bikes" with a bit longer travel and a "tough image"... that the industry seems to be foisting on everyone.
Congratulations KTM... you have finally succeeded in turning your back completely, on - what I and I am sure many others beleive to be - your heritage and roots. This is a latest step - along with the discontinuation of a viable replacement to the 640 Adventure, discontinuation of the 950 SuperEnduro and now the demise of what has been the brands flagship for the last decade; the LC8 Adventure 950/990 - in what many have percieved as KTM losing sight of where it came from... it's soul. ie: "dirt bikes". When you poured that soul in the original LC8 Adventure, you made something unique, capable and timeless.
Now you've just produced another in a long line overweight multi-strada-Gee-Ess-Triumph-Stelvio-F800 like clones... roadbikes for gravel roads. Nothing unique or purposeful about it. Sorry KTM... three strikes and you are out for my money (no 690 Adventure, drop the SuperEnduro, and now this sell out). Maybe it is true that more than 60% of the LC8 "Adventures" sold never saw duty as a hard core offroad bike, but for those that did, it was a pleasure for the riders that owned them to know they had a (more or less) offroad capable bike at their disposal, from the showroom floor, when and if they wanted it.
With the exception of the current 690 E/R (also watered back down from its 2010 -2012 specification), the choice/availabilities for those in the market for a dirt capable dualsport/large capacity off road bike have been systematically abandonned.
So, Mr KTM after 15 years of ownership of various LC4/LC8 powered offroad/adventure/Rallye models, it saddens me to say so... but maybe now it is time for me to go elsewhere (but where?); it appears you have nothing left for me (and quite a few others I would assume).
Troy "Disillussioned" Carpenter.
And what feature from 1190 Adventure or R model (currently known) specs makes you actually believe it can't be ridden like this? 220 or 230 kg, that's not critical to me, also +/- 20mm of suspension travel will not make that big difference for such application.
I believe not more than 1% of current Adv owners can cross logs like this I probably will not try that on my SE either...
Am I the only one here wondering if the new 19/17 tubeless set-up will fit on a 990?
A 19/17 would open up a lot of new choices since I (mis)use the 990 for commuting and Anakee's don't come in 18" format.
Technically, I am 3/4 of the way towards a second 21/18 wheelset, but a second wheelset in the aforementioned 19/17 format makes a lot more sense for me, if not my bank account.
I'm not surprised the 1190 is a adventourer. Having owned a 990 Adventure I can't see why a bigger engine was warranted for a hardcore adv bike. The 950/990 has tons of power for what its designed for; its more about developing a bike where the available power can be used to maximise the bikes ability on and off road.....thats what makes/made the 950/990 such a special bike.
I think this 1190 thing with its BMW dna is KTM's attempt to attract a different type of owner, its a bean counter offering, no problems there just hope they make enough dosh to develop the 640A replacement....I bet there were some interesting debates between the marketers and the hardcore KTM design crew on the need to shove a beak on it
I don't see what all the fuzz is about. KTM has designed and built a big bike, clearly a comeptitor for the GS etc., for the 99 % pavement riders out there. I do think that this bike will sell, generate money for KTM, so they can get their head out of their ass and make the long awaited 690 adventure. And besides, I think it looks great, and I'm sure many others will as well. This bikes enables people to buy a big, safe and fancy tourer from the company that wins the Dakar every year. Good stuff, KTM - now, let's make that 690 adv.
I agree! Was just looking at one at my local dealer and had a hard time walking away. I love my 950 but the 990 R is sweet.
I was referring to the new 1190. I had a 950 and for me, treating an expensive bike as a dirt bike became a nightmare on my wallet and my brain (missed too many rides because my one do it all bike was broken down.....again) I bought a dirt bike I can crash and laugh at (xr650r) and now I am hunting for a backroads touring bike. One that doesn't require body work to be removed for oil changes, gobs of power so it's a good street bike, a 21 inch front for slicing freshly graded gravel, etc
I don't want (been there done that sorta thing) a 500 pound dirt bike. I want an "adventure" bike. For me, these days, that means a sweet street bike that's at home on gravel backroads as much as it is on pavement.
I see this new bike as being marketed to a guy like me...of course my other option is an hp2.....
You can't have just one bike. I have 3 (I have a very good wife ). Right now I have my dream team, 390, 690, 950. I love all types of riding.
Try doing this with the 1190R.
I think more than 1% of 950/990 owners were in a situation like this.
I dont see the 1190R doing this.
I think it is sad to see KTM build bikes to compete with other brands rather than build bikes to compete. Sure I know it is a business and they are out to make some money. I am sure they will sell a ton of these from the interest in this thread. Since I see people putting smaller diameter wheels on their 950/990's maybe this type bike fits that segment well. BTW I think that totally defeats the purpose of the adventure. One of the main reasons I own a 950 is the correct off road worthy 21/18 setup.
To me KTM is "Ready to race". If you want to be competitive at any level in off road racing you buy KTM. Not only are they fast fun and reliable but very competitive right out of the box. Their bikes have been getting away from the race heritage the last few years. New 990's come with an imobilizer? ABS? What do you need that for? And What race are you entering a 1190?
Ahh the sport touring adventure market has a demand for these things. I wish they would leave that market to BMW. So I just hope KTM does not loose sight of what made them great. And I think if you own a KTM you should know who John Penton is.
Maybe this will allow them to offer a 1190 as a street option and a 990 as the off road option without softening it for road use?
+1 for the 690 adventure. (With the correct wheels 21/18)