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Discussion in 'Racing' started by ADK, Oct 26, 2013.
before I prove you wrong, would you settle for prominent instead of premier.
Now that's what a dirt bike is SUPPOSED to sound like!
Or better yet take the muffler off!
What we now call the 250 class is what you used to call the 125 class. Then we started calling it the Lites class. Never was either the prominent or the premier class.
When they killed the 500cc class the 250 two stroke class became what Ralph would call the premier class but when 4 strokes came along that 250 designation had to change. The old 250 class is now the 450 class. The current 250 class designation is the same (or similar) as was used for the 250 two stroke.
When do we get to the point of all this being Aldon Bakers fault?
People did win races before he came along ya know.
yes I've got all that. now try to pay attention.
Nate made the statement (since removed) that the step up from the 250's to the 450's is a big one.
to which while I agree that to be true they have also in effect diminished the brightness of the star that used to be the 250 class that ran in the 70's/80'/90's.
back in the 70's since Honda and Kawasaki either didn't have an open class bike (Honda) or dropped it for a few years (KX450/400) the 250 class with Gary Jones, Tony D, Hannah, Howerton, all capturing consecutive titles was kind of the premier class, and it carried into SX, proven by the fact that the only years there was a 500 SX class was 74/75, while the 250 SX class ran from 74 to 2004, so again, for Nate to say that the step from the 250's to the 450's is a big step, it's only FAIR TO POINT OUT THAT THE 250 CLASS USED TO BE THE PREMIER CLASS ALL THING CONSIDERED.
The 500's were never the premier class in modern times, after the early to mid 80's, because not all manufacturers participated and emphasis was on 250's where they all had product to sell.
When the world stage started to go away from the man's class of bike, the 250's became what was the premier class until 10 or so years ago.
The world marketplace in developed countries is to blame for the demise of the 2-stroke, not California.
Stop being pissy because you have to wait 6 months to see new movie releases on the side of a barn in your Ramcharger with a shitty speaker hanging in your window.
Bah, the "old" 250 class was the fast class, where everybody was. Yamaha and Suzuki chose to drop out back then, 250 was where it was going. Guess what, the same thing has happened again, the new 250 class (overall)l is faster than the 450 class, except now all the factories have 450s to sell and I guess nobody is watching the lap times.
Emig said that on the 250 2t, they wouldn't have been jumping the double over the straight last night. BS. The 250 4t guys were doing it.
The 125s wouldn't have been doing it, well, maybe the top guys like Stewart, RC or Pastrana might have, but the racing would be much different for sure.
I'd rather watch that than them building tracks to try and suit the 450s only to have 250s going faster anyway.
yes I've got all that. now try to pay attention.
What is today LABELED the 250 class is in no way the class that was LABELED the 250 class before the advent of the 4 stroke.
Just because it has the same name does NOT make it the same class.
You still don't understand?
Actually what I said was the step from the lights class to the 450's was a big one.
If we were to go back in time as you seem to insist it would be the 125 class to the 250 class.
Its only fair to point out The 125 class was never the "premier"class
The point was it takes more strength and stamina to ride a more powerfull machine. (and for more laps in supercross)
Hence the need for a personal trainer.
I would like to see Cairoli go full out on the 350 in AMA MX. Just for fun.
Didn´t KR ride the 350 at some event(Monster, or some outdoor event) and performed pretty well.
to a point but comparing todays 250 class to the 125 class is a waste of time and you're old enough to know that.
your silence is deafening.
We are talking - for the purposes of this debate - about AMA Supercross racing... right?
Now all the "back and forth" has been quite entertaining, and the diverse information/viewpoints about the 2 vs 4 stroke in MX/SX, the demise of the 500cc 2 stroke in outdoor motocross circles and the acquired "heir apparent" status of the 450cc 4 stroke, once it de-throned the 250cc mx'er has been enthralling... albeit a tad irrelevant (outdoors/nationals) as this thread is about Supercross (indoors).
But when it comes to comparing today's Monster/AMA supercross 250 (4 stroke) lites east/west series with the former 125cc (2 stroke) east/west supercross series... THAT's EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE... a direct comparison! They fill EXACTLY the same roll in the grand scheme of things, for the sport of Supercross... ie. as the support or "feeder class" to the premier class - which was (once upon a time) the CAMEL/AMA 250cc (2 stroke) Supercross class... and is now in the modern era (thanks to the 4 stroke revolution) the playground of the 450cc 4 stroke and home to the best SX racers on the planet.
Just as McGrath, Bradshaw, Emig, Carmichael, Antunez, Matasievitch... etc. ad- infinitum, all cut their teeth on the 125cc east vs west series before they made the step up and graduated to the "pro" 250 2 stroke class - (a.k.a. the "premier" class - as it was at that time - in Supercoss). So too today, the Vilopoto's, Barcia's, Wilson's and Ciancarillo's etc. all earn their stripes in the 250cc "lites" class, before moving on into the "big show" with the established stars on 450's...? And I was of the understanding that (amongst others) is what Shawnee Bill has been on about the whole time?
I'm at a loss to what all the agro is about? :huh
Oh... that's right... it's the interwebby...
Year after year, month after month its the same argument. Some people in this thread need to step away from the keyboard and go riding.
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
― Mark Twain