2014 V-Strom 1000 vs 2013 Super Tenere Yes, I know....

Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by WookinPaNub, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. WookinPaNub

    WookinPaNub Adventurer

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    .... what I'm asking is based solely on specs at the moment, and that's fine. I've narrowed down my choices for my first dual sport (no need to debate why, I just have :evil) to one of these 2 and there are some characteristics I see in both that I wanted more veteran riders inputs on.

    I won't post all the specs, but here are the ones that caught my eye because of personal importance. Any thoughts on my assertions / questions are appreciated! My riding habits will be 65% onroad, 35% offroad, and that 35% will be in the mountains of Colorado 2up with luggage.


    1. Dimensions: The Strom is an inch longer, but also 4.5" narrower
      1. Question: I thought narrower would be better for maneuverability, others have said that there are issues with 'dirty air' coming around the tank of the ST (even though its wider) causing buffeting issues. Thoughts?
    2. Weight: I'm liking the Strom weighing 75 lbs lighter
    3. Clearance / Travel: The ST has 1.5" more clearance than the Strom, which is significant
      1. Question: I always assumed more clearance was better, some have said length of travel goes hand in hand in the consideration. Some have said that a lower clearance make getting boots on the ground in slow riding conditions better?
    4. MPG / Range: The ST advertised is 40mpg / 6 gallon tank / equates to 240 mile range. For the VStrom I see a 20l (5.2 gallon tank, but some sources say mileage of 20.9kpl while others say 59mpg. That would put the range either at either 260 miles or 312 miles
      1. Question: Both the VStrom numbers are good, but which is right?
    5. Drive: ST is a shaft drive (like my FJR, and I likes the low maintenance / reliability) while the Strom is chain.
      1. Question: I'm all about low maintenance, how difficult would a chain be on these types of bikes to maintain vs a shaft drive?
    6. HP / Torque: HP for both seem to be more than adequate for my type of riding. The Strom Torque range seems better for lower speeds.
    7. Price: I'm seeing estimates on the Strom at 10000GDP which is just shy of 16k, while others are thinking it will be more in the 12k range
      1. Question: Any clue which is a more accurate range?
    8. Fuel: ST appears to take regualr grade, bezel on the Strom looks like it requires premium
      1. Question: Is the Strom really a premium required bike? Why would they do that if so?
    9. 12V Accessory Port: Standard on the Strom for electronics plug and play, not seeing it on the ST.


    Again, thanks for folks thoughts!
    #1
  2. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Long timer

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    you're overthinking it. Buy the one that makes your heart go pitter-patter.
    #2
  3. WookinPaNub

    WookinPaNub Adventurer

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    Overthinking is not something I am often accused of :D

    And they both make my heart go pitter patter, which is why they are my 2 final choices. :wink:
    #3
  4. V-Tom

    V-Tom Been here awhile

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    Most people do not do the proper chain mainainence and as a result spend way too much time doing stuff they don't need to do andway too little time doing what shoudl be done.

    All you need to do with a chain is lube it a lot. I lube my chains with every tank of gas and after every ride it the rain and my last two chains lasted between 41,000 and 46,000 miles. (The 41,000 mile had decent life left in it but I had two chains of friends have issues and thought that someone was trying to tell me something. The 46,000 mile one had some life left but I was starting a long ride and didn't want to risk things.) I use Wurth HHS 2000 for my chain lube (called Wurth HHS 2K in some places.) The process of lubing the chain takes about 10 to 15 seconds if you have a center stand. My wife's bike does not have a center stand so I hold it sideways on the sidestand while she lubes the chain.

    I never cleaned the chain in spite of riding in salted roads, rain, and almost every day non-paved roads.

    All in all very little maintainance.

    ..Tom
    #4
  5. svs

    svs Posts too much...

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    Yep---

    Run'em till they're Hooked!!

    Old:
    [​IMG]

    New:
    [​IMG]


    :lol3
    #5
  6. Greg the pole

    Greg the pole Been here awhile

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    I forgot to add, I have 55km on a dl1000 (6 yrs), 35 km on the ST (2 yrs) and all of 1 thousand km on my dl650. You can't go wrong with either.
    #6
  7. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    You should be compering the 2014 V-Strom to the 2014 Super Ten. :evil

    But anyway.

    1. Dimensions: The Strom is an inch longer, but also 4.5" narrower
      1. Question: I thought narrower would be better for maneuverability, others have said that there are issues with 'dirty air' coming around the tank of the ST (even though its wider) causing buffeting issues. Thoughts?

      Who knows. The pre press stuff always says this turbulence stuff is sorted. The reality is different for different people.
      Maneuverability. Bit more to it than that. Wait and see.

    2. Weight: I'm liking the Strom weighing 75 lbs lighter.

      Yep. The old one felt 75lbs heavier even though it wasn't. so this may be a wash. There are a lot of things on the S10 designed to keep the weight low and central. I could list a few but people's eyes glaze over. A lot of cleverness that people don't notice.

    3. Clearance / Travel: The ST has 1.5" more clearance than the Strom, which is significant.
      1. Question: I always assumed more clearance was better, some have said length of travel goes hand in hand in the consideration. Some have said that a lower clearance make getting boots on the ground in slow riding conditions better?

      The old Strom and the S10 feel about the same boots on the ground wise. The extra clearance comes in handy.
    4. MPG / Range: The ST advertised is 40mpg / 6 gallon tank / equates to 240 mile range. For the VStrom I see a 20l (5.2 gallon tank, but some sources say mileage of 20.9kpl while others say 59mpg. That would put the range either at either 260 miles or 312 miles
      1. Question: Both the VStrom numbers are good, but which is right?

      The S10 can get me 400Km per tank with a couple of litres left assuming I am keeping it at the 110km/h speed limit. A bit better under that but not much. over 110 it starts sucking fuel.
      By the look of the new Strom I would say it will be 20% more efficient at 110k/h and over that it will start sucking fuel. My guess is the 20L tank will give a similar range to the 23L on the S10.

    5. Drive: ST is a shaft drive (like my FJR, and I likes the low maintenance / reliability) while the Strom is chain.
      1. Question: I'm all about low maintenance, how difficult would a chain be on these types of bikes to maintain vs a shaft drive?

      I use oilers on chains. So the chain last a long time. More cleaning involved. Shafts need seals replaced at 40-60000K's if you do lot's of dusty mud stuff. So either way there are maintenance items back there.
    6. HP / Torque: HP for both seem to be more than adequate for my type of riding. The Strom Torque range seems better for lower speeds.

      Very similar tuning. The S10 has a very flat torque curve from 3K up to 6K and is very still usable at 2K. SO I am assuming the new Strom went for a similar effect. In the real world it works great. The S10 is tuned for Chugging up tricky bits, through sand, and is broad enough so slipping clutches and hunting for gears off road is minimized, looks like Suzuki have gone a similar route. Tuned things to where they are needed 90% of the time. It remains to be seen how fast the new STrom drops off under 4K. It could be a slight bump, it could be a big one. Wait and see.
    7. Price: I'm seeing estimates on the Strom at 10000GDP which is just shy of 16k, while others are thinking it will be more in the 12k range
      1. Question: Any clue which is a more accurate range?

      No idea. It's up to the importer to determine the price.
    8. Fuel: ST appears to take regualr grade, bezel on the Strom looks like it requires premium
      1. Question: Is the Strom really a premium required bike? Why would they do that if so?

      I would say it's the same as the S10. Manufacturer recommends premium, the bike runs fine on regular. The compression ratio on the S10 is 11:1 on the Strom it's the same as last time at 11.3:1. Both these bikes should take any fuel if used sensibly.
    9. 12V Accessory Port: Standard on the Strom for electronics plug and play, not seeing it on the ST.

    Standard on the ST. 3A fuse. That is if you are talking 12v power.
    #7
  8. V-Tom

    V-Tom Been here awhile

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    Here is the front sprocket that helped me realize that while 45,000 to 50,000 miles is probably realistic on a chain, the front sprocket doesn't last that long. It is a 16 tooth from my 2006 DL650:

    [​IMG]

    ..Tom
    #8
  9. Mr.Black999

    Mr.Black999 Been here awhile

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    I'd like to hear. :ear
    #9
  10. Motard_Menace

    Motard_Menace Been here awhile

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    I too am interested in seeing some real world testing on the new Strom. I have always liked the Super Tenere since it came out but the Strom would certainly get my attention if it came in a couple or few grand cheaper. One of these days I will actually take the plunge and by an Adventure bike to replace the long gone Katoom 950 I had a for a short time. For now most of my riding is on the street, so the Trumpy works fine. Anyway as for some of your questions regarding the comparison I will chime in on chain vs. shafty since I have experience with both. There are positives and negatives for both drive systems and it really just boils down to what you want and are willing to deal with. As others have stated, chains really are not that much work maintenance wise in todays world since the chains on newer bikes are fairly advanced when compared to even 20 years ago. If you keep them lubed the life expectancy is more than reasonable. I use WD40 as a lube and have for the past 10 years. I've never had an issue with my chains. I lube them about once or twice a month during the riding season and sporadically when the bike is only getting out sporadically. Shafts are nice as well but do also require maintenance as you know having an FJR. That 75 pounds of weight savings in most likely getting a big chunk from the chain vs. having a shaft for the Strom. You will also have less driveline lash most likely from the chain and if there is usually a weak point on shafty bikes it is the drive. Yamaha's however have seemed to have great reliability from what I have seen and read. It pretty much boils down to your preference and how much you want to take out of the wallet in the end. good luck
    #10
  11. danketchpel

    danketchpel Long timer

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    I don't think you'll know if your heart goes pitter-patter until you ride them. The new Vee is a big unknown at this point, tune, handling, true weight, etc.

    It's your call on chain vs shaft, my cards fall on shaft for sure.

    Ya, some guys might run a chain to 40,000 miles but looking at those sprocket pix I'd never take one that far. Figure 25-30k miles more realistic with suitable maintenance. One thing I friggen hate about chains is the mess. If you lube it, can't avoid it. You can minimize it, but not avoid it. And I'm really not a fan of having to tote along a can of chain lube and be squirting the stuff on in a parking lot during long rides, but that's just me.

    Most shaft drives can go an easy 50k miles with only oil changes and many times much further depending on conditions. 100k miles on a shaft drive without significant service issues is common. The sport turning guys run the hell out of them with no worries. I had over 100k miles on my old BMW shaft drive with only oil changes.

    What you can't tell by the specs is how they feel to you. Having owned a Vee and ridden several S10s the engines have a very different feel. I won't say one is better/worse just very different. You'll have to decide which appeals to you.

    Most of the stuff you pointed out from the spec sheets (length, width, etc.) has little bearing in the real world scope of things. Weight is very real but depends on how it feels.

    Things that are impossible to tell are wind flow, vibrations, handling characteristics, braking, clutch/shift quality, how the gearing feels, engine "feel" (throttle response, torque curve, fuel mapping, rev quality, etc.) these are important factors that cannot be judged until ridden.

    What may prove difficult is copping a test ride on a new Vee.
    #11
  12. V-Tom

    V-Tom Been here awhile

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    As you said it is personal preference. I've had both and can live with either.

    My front sprocket was at about 40,000 miles. I've learned to change them before that and never had the rear sprocket wear anything close to the other one shown here. The chain was perectly okay.

    No doubt chains are messy compared to shaft and that is a part of the trade-off for having less weight and the flexibilty to change gearing if you wanted. The actual lubing literally takes seconds. I suspect someone checking the fluid level of their shaft would take much longer than I do lubing.

    ..Tom
    #12
  13. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    You asked for it. :D

    Remember I am comparing 2007 DL1K that I owned to 2010 S10 that I currently own.

    Rear sub frame. Foam filled Aluminium Vs steel. Lighter and just as strong. Weight up high is reduced.
    One single muffler that isn't that heavy Vs two heavy things up high.
    Grab handles racks etc at the rear. Plastic Not Ali.
    Front Sub frame headlights etc, Plastic Vs steel.

    Motor. Dry sump. Gets it 2 inches lower in the chassis. COG improved. Heads are short. COG is improved again.
    This is obvious if you look at a Tiger 1200 and where the pipes exit the head Vs the Tenere.

    If you hole the sump, there are two advantages.
    1) only the oil passing the hole is being lost VS the oil just draining out as the oil tank is up high out of the way. so riding out you can get further before you are stuck. May make a difference.
    2) You just replace/weld the plate. no need to split the engine.
    3) The oil tank can be filled to the brim with no effect on the crank.

    Air intake faces backward and up high. Vs facing forward and not so high. Think extracting air that is not forcing dust, and bugs up it's nostrils. I have never found a bug or much dust in the air box VS the Strom which collected bugs and dust very well.
    Think riding through water at seat height with the air intake on the low side of the "bow wave" instead of the high side.

    Radiator on the side on flexible mounts. Not vulnerable to mud, sticks stones etc. Under normal use it never looses its efficiency. It stays clean and crap free Vs the Strom which was slowly becoming filled with old bug bodies, mud scale, stone hits and once had an overheating issue with too much mud spray caking it up.
    If you need to remove the front guard because of mud there is no downside for the radiator. It won't get clogged.
    Nearly all electrical components, battery, tool kit are in one side under one cover with 1/4 turn fasteners and mounted low.
    The regulator has it's own dedicated air intake with air directed over it. It's not hiding somewhere baking trying to run your gear. It stays cool. It is forced air cooled.

    Motor is not tuned to be a horsepower monster. It is tuned something like a cruiser / street bike hybrid. still has 90% of the torque available at 2K 3K-6K is flat and a long tail at the top. Chugging up steep inclines with lots of gear is a non issue. 6th is very tall and still very usable, which helps fuel economy. Because of the torque spread there is less gear hunting in the gnarly stuff. This is nice on road and even better off road.

    Balance shafts are included so at light throttle it's pretty smooth.

    Flip up tank. You can get to air cleaners etc without removing it.

    Runs 11:0 to one compression. No need to run any fancy fuel if you are sensible. Same as the Strom.

    ABS/UBS/TC was designed well for off road use. Will allow rear drag but not lock. Will allow you to spin up the back to a point.You may want to turn ABS off, if you are really into serious stuff but it still works on pretty steep rocky inclines The 650 Stroms did pretty well with this as well. No one noticed either except the South Africans, Australians and German Mottorad Mag.

    The chassis geometry is straight up dirt bike. Raked out and stable in the rough and unpredictable stuff. This is not a Jacked up street bike.

    Shaft. It will probably go some pretty big distances with nothing needed. It's not something that I am either for or against but big distances between preventative maintenance is one plus.

    So as with all engineering compromises there are pluses and minuses, they are not all good for everyone. It took me three bikes and a lot of reading to get to the point where I found what was needed for me. What is needed for me is not necessarily needed for everyone, but I you still appreciate all the thought that went into this bike. Lot's of Non spec sheet details.

    So this bike was never meant to be great at one thing, but the thing is, neither am I.
    #13
    richnyc likes this.
  14. WookinPaNub

    WookinPaNub Adventurer

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    Wow - great feedback all, that is exactly what I was looking for. Perspective on some items, other items I had not considered. Greatly appreciated - other thoughts welcome as well. Thanks!
    #14
  15. davidji

    davidji bike curious

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    Chain is one of few negatives for me with the Strom. But it's a small one.

    How difficult the chain is depends what you do with it. Some clean and oil every few hundred miles. That's a lot of work.

    Others never touch it, except for the occasional adjustment. Not sure how good an idea that is. On the forums some seem to claim that their chains last forever that way. I recently looked at a coworker's chain maintained like that (not sure about the occasional adjustment part), and it didn't look good.

    I use an automatic chain oiler, and never manually clean or oil the chain. Maintenance consists of infrequent chain adjustments, topping up the oiler from time to time, occasionally adjusting the flow rate, and inspecting the back tire to keep it oil free. Occasional chain replacement too.

    I don't think that's much more work than with some shaft setups. Of course my bike gets a bit oily in back.

    If the strom had a shaft I expect it would have less fuel economy, range and performance. I might miss the range.

    Belt drive would be my 1st choice (my needs are mostly commuting), but I realize there are drawbacks to a belt drive on an adventure bike.
    #15
  16. RonKZ650

    RonKZ650 Been here awhile

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    Yea, belt is not going to work. I remember going through a construction zone in Wyoming years ago and there was some dirt and mud to ride through. Every Harley was on the side of the road attempting to clean off the belt teeth to continue. Chain drive and shaft drive, just ride on through. I've got 300,000 miles on chain and am never going to hit 300,001. Never again will I be oiling a chain, getting oil on the wheel and my back, never again for any price. They sell the Suzuki with chain for $2000 new, I'm not buying.
    #16
  17. mousitsas

    mousitsas Long timer

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    Chains last a lot longer if you change front sprockets more frequently, ie every 15k km or so. Which is expected considering that rear sprockets have 3x the teeth fronts have.
    #17
  18. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

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    great, I think we were long overdue another chain vs shaft thread......... :lol3
    #18
  19. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    neither of these bikes are dual sports. start there.
    #19
  20. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    I have a few questions Eak.

    What is your definition of a dual sport?

    And what oil should it use?

    Do dual sports all run chains?

    What's the most common tire choice for dual sports?

    Should it be a two strike or 4 stroke?

    :evil
    #20