2017 Sherco 250 Factory

Discussion in 'Trials' started by motobene, May 14, 2017.

  1. Limbman

    Limbman Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Oddometer:
    22
    Location:
    Reno Nevada
    Tubes come in both front and rear?

    That is a little disheartening to have a brand new, top of the line bike sidelined by cheap 'Chinese sourced' set of inner tubes.
    Sounds like something GM would do. Saved $1, cost them $$$ in warranty repairs and consumer loyalty.
    #21
  2. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,707
    Location:
    Wichita Mountains SW Oklahoma
    Thanks, Norman. I'll check. The bike made it here with air in the tires so I just figured it was something I did.
    #22
  3. Norman Foley

    Norman Foley Devotee of the Husqvarna

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,049
    Location:
    New York... The Finger Lakes
    So did mine.... I figured I possibly damaged the valve core checking pressure?
    #23
  4. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,707
    Location:
    Wichita Mountains SW Oklahoma
    Welcome - soon - to the trials riding experience, my friend! Limbman is a long-time associate from my former prothetics design and manufacturing (and politics) era. Soon to receive a pepped-by-little-old-me 2017 Scorpa 300 SC!

    No cheapness in this quarter! Simplicity, mostly.

    The modern rear tire has, fortunate for us, long been tubeless radial.

    The rims for years were seal-banded over the spoke nipples and fairly reliable. When you had a good one, zero leaks. The later rims have no spoke nipples passing through to the pressurized cavity, so only the two beads to seal. And seal very well they do! Nice slick anodize on the rims and very well molded tire beads by Michelin and Dunlop (who massively dominate the market), IRC, and a few others.

    The rear tires can be a pain to de-bead, get to take pressure on the bead, then scary to set the bead. Soapy water and up to about 60 psi and step back and wait... wait for it! (or just walk away for a while). BUUUNG!, the bead pops on like a small explosion.

    If the front goes flat you notice it right off. The rear at 3-1/2 to 4-1/2 psi can go flat and sometimes a fellow rider has to point that out. "Hey, dude, your rear is flat...." "Oh, thanks!" Then it's ride the section and amble back to the truck for some air. It's hard, these days, to de-bead a flat rear tire, especially when conditions are dry.

    They tried tubeless front tires in the late `80s. Nice idea in theory but the air liked to escape the thinner front bead when side forces from rocks and general impacts would translate to the bead to fart out precious gas. Didn't work out, so back to bias ply tube type. Typically one 2.75 X 21 tube can lasts up to the life of the bike and several front tires. Maybe a patch or two.... Fairly easy to mount and demount except for a little hassle with the tube and the one rim lock, and you have to leave the stem nut loose so you cans pot tire slip under braking forces, which are substantial. Sometimes one won't like to fully bead so you have to do the soapy water and higher pressure waiting game. They will work not fully beaded, but it's distracting when the tire is wobbly in one spot as it rolls around, s one's face is often directly over the tire.

    When you run some squeeze-in sealer (in both front and rear), you don't experience pin-hole leaks and flats. I've got some Quadboss sealer to experiment with that is apparently less likely to jam a valve stem up with fibers that Slime. Never had that happen until the Fantic and four National events. It didn't want to fully bead the front tire so I jacked up the pressure. Then it was FOREVER getting air back out! Had to ride Kansas day one with 7psi in the front. Bony feel and it cost me a few points.

    As for fancy new high-pressure insert alternatives for front tubes, these have not taken hold in trials. The reason, I suspect, is we run our pressures quite low, in a dinky band between too mushy and too firm, of 5-1/2 to 6-1/2 psi at the widest, and yes, you can feel the difference! Nothing beats simple air for feel, and traction on terrain and during impulse inputs for steering reaction torques to correct course and maintain standing balance.
    #24
    Takataka and LemmeTry like this.
  5. Limbman

    Limbman Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Oddometer:
    22
    Location:
    Reno Nevada
    Good to know and thanks for the further education on this "new to me" dive into the world of Trials.
    Like many here I have been on two wheels for 40 plus years so it is time to go back to the basics and have some fun.

    You have teased me with this for more than 20 years so it is time :)

    I am very pleased to be having this set up by someone who works out every detail and then some.
    #25
    LemmeTry likes this.
  6. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,707
    Location:
    Wichita Mountains SW Oklahoma
    It's the good side of being called 'crazy' by politicos....

    Now that my brain is awake and the back less quirky, I'm off to check 2 miles of fence on the ATV with doglets in tow. Then I can get back to setting up your bike. Assembled the rest of the way and fired up to test jetting and other details today. Only rained 0.2" last night. No tornados, hail, or mud. The bigger cells straddled us.
    #26
  7. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    9,885
    Location:
    Dubuque, Iowa
    So the the preacher of small bores, sells the noob a 300???
    #27
  8. Limbman

    Limbman Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Oddometer:
    22
    Location:
    Reno Nevada
    I can say it before he does, the Noob is 270 Lbs and lives at 5500 feet in the foot hills of the mountains so the added power will be somewhat nullified. :) Most of the great riding areas around here are 8 to 12K.
    #28
  9. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    9,885
    Location:
    Dubuque, Iowa
    Well, maybe we'll let 'bene slip on this one...
    #29
    jonnyc21 and laser17 like this.
  10. Limbman

    Limbman Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Oddometer:
    22
    Location:
    Reno Nevada
    He tried to talk me into the 250, but he also knows I am power hungry as well as food :D
    #30
    jonnyc21, BEEF706 and laser17 like this.
  11. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,707
    Location:
    Wichita Mountains SW Oklahoma
    I like it when folks check me on my 'preaching!'

    When you put the S3 flywheel weight on the 300, it gets mellowed and more 250-like. You still have the greater torque of the 300, and the slight heavier feel from the inertia. Add in the altitude and above-average customer body mass, and the balance was tipped in favor of the 300.

    What Limbman will experience in his more rarified air won't be much different than what I experience in thick air with no flywheel weight.
    #31
  12. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,707
    Location:
    Wichita Mountains SW Oklahoma
    An interesting find in the test ride of the standard Scorpa yesterday. I already knew this, but with more direct comparison it really stood out: The standard model Sherco-Scorpa Olle R16V shock is valved excellently!

    The Ohlins on the Factory model I have long said is over damped. I would not be at all surprised if the valving specs are same as the GG45 Ohlins for mid 2000s GasGas.

    Companies do that. Once a spec is developed they tend to repeat it. It's why 315R and 4RT Showa shocks were glue slow for so many years.

    With bypass screw full open, my new Ohlins is still harsh compared to the Olle. Pat Smage prefers the Ohlins because it doesn't bounce him back when slamming the huge stuff. But I am 60 and don't slam huge stuff! For me, the Olle is a superior-working shock.

    The new Sherco frame design has a strut hard up against the shock that requires the spring be oriented up. If I can find some way to orient an Ohlins body-side up, I'd toss the DeCarbon gas separating piston, go gas emulsion, and be able to easily revalve the shock.

    I suppose it's worth the risk to try to rebuild it with the separating piston. It's a pain in the ass in these low-oil-volume shocks, but it can be done. If I fail I can always get an Olle shock!

    Ohlins is adamant that the shock is unrebuildable because that can only be done on one machine in Sweden that is slated only for production. To such trepidations I like to say simply, "Bullshit!"
    #32
    jonnyc21 likes this.
  13. Gordy

    Gordy Team Listo

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2001
    Oddometer:
    27,098
    Location:
    NM
    I love the standard suspension on mine. :nod The only downside to the Olle that I have heard is that two of the guys around here blew them out, but that was after a lot of hard riding.
    If mine blows, I'll either just get another or a Reiger. :dunno
    #33
  14. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,707
    Location:
    Wichita Mountains SW Oklahoma
    The upside to Ohlins and Reiger is more durability than Olle, long term, particularly the Ohlins, which has a larger bore than Reiger.

    I'd bet an Olle replacement would be much less than a Reiger. I've had 3 Reigers including a Factory version with 'too many' adjustments. I think the Olle R16V per Sherco valve specs works just as well as the Reiger.
    #34
    Norman Foley likes this.
  15. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    9,885
    Location:
    Dubuque, Iowa
    So the new Scorpa 250 you have is the standard model, not the Factory?
    #35
  16. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,707
    Location:
    Wichita Mountains SW Oklahoma
    Eh? Scorpa 300 SC, and two Factory Shercos in the shop currently, a 125 and a 250.
    #36
  17. motobene

    motobene Motoing for 46 years

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Oddometer:
    3,707
    Location:
    Wichita Mountains SW Oklahoma
    I had the Olle R16V shock out of the Scorpa, to fit a stiffer shock spring.

    The Olle has a steel body though aluminum end cap. The body looks like bare aluminum because of some derivation of zinc chromate clear plating.

    The shock is minimalist in design and lighter than Ohlins. Being steel body and light could explain an early death from over temperature. Giving out from heat from such as sustained hard charging, rough-loop riding on a hot, windless summer day.

    Also, if the body bore is honed steel as many steel shock bodies are, ferrous particulates slough off the bore over time, dirtying the oil over the long term. Aluminum-body shocks are better at heat transfer, and the have either anodized or hard coated bores, both of which present surfaces much harder than steel.

    Pure speculation of course, as I've not had one apart. This R16V sure works well, and if a fellow isn't beating the thing to death it should stay alive a long time.
    #37
  18. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    9,885
    Location:
    Dubuque, Iowa
    Ok, I'm getting confused. I thought Scorpa also had a standard and "factory" version. Looks like it's just one model on the RYP site. But why does the swingarm say Reiger, when it actually has an Olle shock?
    #38
  19. Limbman

    Limbman Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Oddometer:
    22
    Location:
    Reno Nevada
    The Scorpa USA site is showing the Factory in the link to the SC. The SC is mostly orange and black and can be seen in other sites . I noticed this a while ago when researching on the Web.
    #39
  20. Norman Foley

    Norman Foley Devotee of the Husqvarna

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,049
    Location:
    New York... The Finger Lakes
    Standard SC
    [​IMG]

    Factory SC
    [​IMG]
    #40