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Discussion in 'Airheads' started by bernardofeio, Jun 7, 2012.
did any one tried this cam:
296° Enduro-torque camshaft
May be talk to Adventure950? Think he's dropped one in his new beast..
I haven't run one but I don't understand the need for the timing. How low do you want peak torque? Even our engines with flywheels don't have enough flywheel to be loading the engine much under 3000rpm anyway. They shake and shudder.
I used one for 50kkm and liked it.
The bike (R80) also had a 7rock 1000cm upgrade kit, 32mm carbs, and ported tops.
When I build the engine the goal was to improve torque and move max torque to approx 3500RPM. It got almost 80Nm at 3500RPM and with the R80 final drive it was a dream to ride offroad.
The power-band might be a bit narrow, but IMHO it's a nice and cheap way to get a better low and midrange.
The graph shows a standard R80GS Kalahari (red) and the modified (blue). The dip in the red graph at 3000-4000 RPM was later solved by replacing the y-pipe with a collector box.
thks for your replays.
the curves compare a 800cc standard with a 1000cc with 296 cam correct?
how does de bike perform on the road?
I hate dyno sheets that have the torque and HP on two different pages and I hate them even more when they have metric torque and English HP. All metric or all English!
Yes, standard R80GS vs R80GS with Siebenrock upgradekit and ported heads.
It was a great on the road, always much more punch then the R80
Nice lil increase in torque there.
The upgrade kit is 1000cc? Higher compression? And ported heads? If so, that can make a hell of a difference with a stock cam. I wonder what just the cam does?
Then you better install one on a standard R80
I've tried several R80 with just the Siebenrock kit and that's why I decided that a standard Siebenrock kit was not what I was looking for. My estimate is that this setub beats the standard Siebenrock up to 5700 RPM.
Thank you that's quite useful I haven't been over 6.000 RPM for some time but I do call on the motor to pull smoothly
from just over 2,000 it would be nicer if it was a bit more willing.
With the std peak torque at low 5s it's nice to cruise h-way speeds at a economical 4-4,500 RPM and have the motor willing to go .then go some more.
What's the enduro cam like overtaking weekend traffice on the two lane?
Have you got any fuel ecomomy figuresd yet?
yep I got a 296 enduro cam also but also a siebenrock kit and twin plugs flowed heads 32 carbs. The bike pulls like a train from just under 2000 revs torque reads about 65nm at 2000 revs - smooth and easy, 2400 revs gets 70 nm the torque then stays pretty flat at 70 to 72nm through to just below 5500 revs where it tails off hp at these revs is about 67hp. All these figures were at the back wheel on full knobbly tyres. The bike is very usable at slow speed - i am currently running a 32/10 twin shock bevel box on the gs rear end the bike is very usable to about 90mph then it gets a bit more buzzy - but that could be something not quite balanced up (ie wheels tires etc never been balanced but keeps on pulling well upto about 100mph where she really starts to lose the will to go much faster but by then on this tank shes getting kind of interesting to hold onto.) Overtaking is easy top gear is usable from pretty low speeds right through so overtaking is fine. Fuel wise I get about 11 mile litre) so about 50 per gallon give or take a bit here and there depending on roads and speed etc. I have changed from a 2 into 1 with y piece ( siebenrock sgs2) since these figures to a non standard keihen race 2 into 2 system - so really a new dyno test should be run. The bike feels better with the 2 into 2 system.
Thanks for the hands on description adv950. It does sound like the power band is a bit narrow like mentioned before. I just point that out because you can narrow the power band moving peak torque either way. That is what is great about BMW's 336. They have a wide power band. I installed my 336 while doing very little else to the engine and not having to down shift for getting around cars was one of the first things I noticed. What I once had to do in forth and sometimes third and could motor through in fifth loaded up and riding double. The difference being from around 80mph with a 33/11 in my case but still . . . .
My question is with that cam does it shake and shudder less loading the engine much below 2800rpm say? My sport cam was no different in that way than the stock cam.
Hi supershaft I would say its really smooth at lower revs there is virtually no shake and shudder above 2000 revs but its still an airhead so there is some feel to the motor but not like it used to be.( in fact i am able to slow the engine in top gear on level ground to little over 1600 revs ride along quite smooth and gently pull away without any major protest from the engine) Before doing the mods the bike would protest below 3000revs and would bog down easily in higher gears at low speed, But now my bike is really easy to ride low down and i have got into a bad habit of sitting in top gear at 2000 revs - pootling along in traffic then just opening the throttle and off she goes nothing no rattle, protest - shake or feeling of bogging down. Its what I wanted for riding on slippy wet and or icy roads ideal. Like you say the pay off is at the top end - she really is not suited to high revs and sustained higher speed. Anything over 85mph starts to feel more strained and the engine feels like its really working a bit harder. She will pull up to the ton but its all a bit uncomfortable - Like you say you gain one end and pay off the other end the other thing is I am using a 5% higher top gear and a %5 lower first so that alters the drive ratios a little bit.
. The roads i ride most though often are very winding gravel strewn and slippy so the bikes set up is suited for that type of riding. Problem is i did so many changes at once its hard to say what did what - some of the work was undertaken on my behalf by Motoren Israel in Germany who are up there with the best guys for their knowledge and expertise in airheads so they knew what i wanted and developed the best solution. Jake.
I think I can understand how cam timing might lower the shakes and shudders. I would think it would be mostly flywheel but what works works! Maybe someday I will be able to check a bike out with a cam like that. Time will tell if loading the engine that much at that low of a rpm is hard on the rod big ends.
My riding style is just the opposite of yours. Ice, gravel, wet? I keep my revs high. More steadying engine gyroscopics and better traction control in my opinion. If my back tire breaks loose at high rpm, my engine has no where to rev because it is already at top of its power band. If I ride around like you at the beginning of the power band and my tire breaks loose, look out! My engine can gain 3000rpm lickity split and that is a lot of wheel spin. In the mean time, my faster spinning engine components are steadying my bike like a auto gyro. Different strokes for different folks. I would still like to check out one of those cams! Thanks again adventure950!
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Thks for all the answers.<o></o>
One thing that really catch my attention is the fuel consumption that in my experience is very good.<o></o>
The flat torque curve is very appealing since I dont have a very aggressive driving style
and while off roading torque and low revs are always welcome (in my opinion)<o></o>
One more technical question.<o></o>
To change the camshaft I just need to remove the front end of the engine, remove the push rods and swith the shaft?<o></o>
Of do I need to remove the engine (or the gearbox) to gain access to the rear engine?<o></o>
Hi supershaft maybe your style makes lots more sense - but im a big woose these days, years ago i rode on the edge most of the time, now got too many aches, pains and old injuries to be able whether I want to or not -so slow it is. Bit like a trials ride vs a motocross i suppose - My biking days are now out on the pasture - taking it all very easy.
A new cam is a good time to do the cam followers as well.
That would require removal of the barrells.
If you want to risk leaving the followers in place remove the rockers and push rods and stick a telecoping magnetic pick up device down the push rod holes to retract & retain the followers 4 required.
You will also need to addrerss the sproket on the camshaft. Recomendation is ordering a new sproket but if reusing the old one removal from existing cam and replacemnent on the new is required.
Might as well do a cam chain while your in there.
Scope creep it's what projects are made of.
I think I am there after my last get off too. But still, after first gear it just depends of what gear you pick, not the speed. Just last week after nine months all my nine broken bones are back together! YEA!! My dislocated little toe is still rubbing on my shoe real bad! I made it to 44 years hard riding since I was six!
Thanks for the thread and feedbacks on use,
This is sounding right up my alley for what I am trying to make my G/S- a low to mid range torque beast. The lower it pulls strongly from all the better for me, and like some others I have no need or desire for much over 6,000 rpm.
Each to their own, but I love the feel of the boxer engine thugging along around 3000-ish rpm (give or take 1000 rpm), and I'd much rather have a bike that growls contentedly up and around dirt road at 2.5k rpm than one that starts singing at 6.5k rpm on a bitumen corner. It is all about the style of riding and situations I wish to put myself in. Road racing is not for me (and I don't mean to be argumentative here).
I have the siebenrock 1000cc kit ready to go on, the higher 5th and after just getting back from the alpine rally on my R90 I have suddenly (and finally) gotten the desire for a lower 1st- which I will also buy (I burnt the crap out of my clutch a few times on some dirty stuff and really would have appreciated a much lower gear and/or lower power band).
for a camshaft swap- (trying to determine the likely scope creep)
Along with the standard timing chain kit I have, I've already got both new sprockets for the timing chain (which sorely needs doing anyway).
Engine will be coming out, gearbox off and apart, Jugs will be coming off anyway to swap.
Are the followers a might as well do if you are in there thing- or more of a check and keep them if they are OK kind of thing? Engine is unknown mileage from a roughly treated bike- runs well aside from a very loose timing chain.
Any other stand out items of might as well do while you are that far in?
is motoren israel the only place to get this cam?