$400 Works rebuild, Ohlins, or WP?

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by naginalf, Sep 28, 2012.

  1. Airhead Wrangler

    Airhead Wrangler Long timer

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    Read back a bit. The OP is considering rebuilding his WP (Works Performance) or replacing it with an ohlins or WP (white power).
    #21
  2. naginalf

    naginalf Handy Schtroumpf

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    I would love to support a US manufacturer, but for the money, I want something more than just holes in a piston, and it sounds like that's all they have. If someone knows otherwise concerning their construction, I'll probably just keep it, it does seem like a good, reliable unit. I'm not ruling it out.

    However, new stuff does bring stars to my eyes :D and I get scope creep easily. That being said, there may be a group buy possible with the Yacugar stuff, all we need is 5 interested parties for what looks like a rather good discount on either the emulsion shock or the fully adjustable F-RS with a remote reservoir and hydraulic preload, perhaps around 7-800 for the latter (don't quote me yet, just looking for interest).

    But I was particularly interested in the S-MX model. I know a lot of us are transforming our G/S or GS into some very rugged dirtbike oriented machines, but I've also heard that Ohlins and Wilbers are a tad delicate under harsh conditions or hard riding, plus they are more road oriented since no one thinks of airheads as dirtbikes. But this company is considering making this shock for our application, designed specifically for off road use, something no one has really done before. Oh sure, a shock is a shock, and you can valve it any way you want, but is it designed for the rigors of serious off roading? I'm not sure if this one is, but I'd rather have a shock that was designed to take the abuse of MX and valve it for more road orientation than the other way around.

    So, that being said, any interest in either case? :ear
    #22
  3. Biebs

    Biebs BMW Airhead

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    http://www.onestopmoto.com/Progressive_Suspension_465_Series_Mono_Shock_p/sbps-465-1131.htm


    You know you have a Rebuilable shock so why not rebuild?? $400

    Or you could go with a Progressive 465 I am told this shock is 95% of what a Ohlins is 1/2 the price.

    Progressive 465 $397 online not rebuildable but if it cost $400 to rebuild a rebuildable shock come to the light this is a disposable world - Get with the program - you can use 2 progressive shocks and still not equal the cost for an Ohlins. Oh what will it cost to rebuild that Ohlins or whatever?? 3 years from now when your progressive is Done what will be available?? something better??


    :wink:
    #23
  4. Airhead Wrangler

    Airhead Wrangler Long timer

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    That's a cheapo emulsion shock. Though I've never used that particular brand, I can guarantee with 95% certainty that one of those is definitely not 95% as good as an ohlins or other fully adjustable shock. The yacugar ones are intriguing as ohlins and WP are definitely overpriced for what they are. (not to say that they aren't really good though)
    #24
  5. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

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    Don't believe what you read in the internet... this included:evil

    Progressive is not 95% of what Ohlins is.. granted a poorly sprung and incorrectly Ohlins may not work as well as a properly sprung Prog, but the Ohlins once adjusted is much better than the Prog.

    There is a reason why Ohlins costs more, part in being reputation but part based in capability.
    #25
  6. ignatz72

    ignatz72 call me iggy

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    I'd be interested to hear what the Yacugars would cost in a group situation. Specifically the F-RS.

    Do I understand your posts in that Ted's Beemer Shop is a Yacugar dealer?

    **Edit**. Yep, saw it for myself. It has been a while since I visited the Beemershop page, but they are a part of the online shop.
    #26
  7. Biebs

    Biebs BMW Airhead

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    :freaky

    Just to keep things friendly I got this information straight from my BMW specialist NOT the internet!!! So There - don't believe everthing you hear on the internet do your research!!!

    Here is a link to my EBAY shock replacement:

    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822453
    #27
  8. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

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    Well, I worked at a BMW dealer in the parts department for a few years, LOL.

    Just go and hold both in your hands at the same time.

    Any just so you know, even BMW Specialist can have opinions just as worthless as the rest of us....
    #28
  9. Biebs

    Biebs BMW Airhead

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    How long ago was it you worked at the BMW dealer ???? Time is a factor - Progressive shocks have come a long way. The 465 series is a new design - do your research. My research is to see what time frame your experience comes from this is relative.
    #29
  10. naginalf

    naginalf Handy Schtroumpf

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    Thanks for the suggestion Biebs. I do like Progressive and have used them in the past, good company, good service in my experience. However, they can offer things so cheap because they don't do custom work. The biggest reason for this rebuild/replacement in my case is the need for a bigger spring. Progressive offers only one spring for their shock (unless I'm mistaken), although for additional cost, I'm sure you could get it custom sprung. With Ohlins, Wilbers, or Yacuga, I can get an emulsion shock (or even better in the ohlins I think) for only $50-100 more than that, and have it both custom sprung and valved.

    But I'd definitely recommend Progressive as a good, inexpensive replacement for the more average sized rider. And, in addition to Works, they are also a US based supplier!

    As for the group buy, yes I would like to go through Ted Porter when he gets back to me on the subject. Although, I've already gotten a rather nice group offer from the UK company that AW mentioned, FTR Suspension, for 20% off for 5 orders. Even with the exchange rate at stock prices, they are $30 cheaper (made up by expense of shipping tho), but at 20% off that makes the F-RS cost only... let's see, stock price in USD is $925, 20% off makes it $740, shipping was quoted at $104, however that was shipped to individual doors. I can probably do a lot better than that having it shipped to a freight dock here at work and individually shipping them when they get here for much less.

    Anyway, nothing official to offer at this point, when I get official information, I may start a group buy thread, or Ted Porter may start one of his own as a vendor, he certainly doesn't need my help to do so. Despite possibly cheaper prices from FTR, I'd rather go through the US distributor of course, I'm sure he gets the same price break as the UK guys, but if you're in Europe, you should definitely look up FTR, they are very prompt, courteous, and helpful, and have awesome prices! A UK based group buy would only cost £460 each for 5 people or more to get a kick ass, full featured shock, custom built to their specs.
    #30
  11. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

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    AFAIK, the Ohlins dealers only re-spring the shocks in the sales price... re-valving is not included and costs extra.

    If you've found an Ohlins dealer that also included valving, please share who they are!
    #31
  12. naginalf

    naginalf Handy Schtroumpf

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    Don't they set the valving up at the factory to match the appropriate spring rate, I know it's general, but I'd think that would be necessary. Of course with fully adjustable model, probably not necessary. I just figured that post sale valving would cost extra. I'm not 100% on Yacuga or Wilbers, but I think Yacuga is offering theirs with custom valving and spring, and Works valves them properly setup from the factory. Anyway, I was just making a general point, sorry for the misinformation if so. Works were absolutely insistent that their shock would not work with a bigger spring without revalving, so I'm not sure how the others are getting away with that. If that's the case, then buying an emulsion shock from the other companies would be silly for a person like me. Geez, it's always the fine print that getsya.

    But that fits with my options anyway, either I'll rebuild, revalve, and respring the Works, or I'm going top of the line where the adjustability makes revalving unnecessary (right?).
    #32
  13. Boxer Metal

    Boxer Metal Mad Scientist

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    Work Performance uses a variable damper that automatically adjusts as you are riding. I have used their shocks for 25 years and really like the product and the people behind them.
    #33
  14. Biebs

    Biebs BMW Airhead

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    :freaky

    I think you are overlooking the fact that you have a Works Shock that can be rebuilt to your specs for $400 which is your best / cheapist way to go - Do you believe you will get that much better of a ride from a ohlins or yacuga??? Will Yacuga custom build to your specs?? Your original question is being answered if you want a custom build to your specs rebuild the Works shock. You already have the old shock get it rebuilt> Best deal!!!:deal
    #34
  15. naginalf

    naginalf Handy Schtroumpf

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    I'm not overlooking the rebuild at all, you quoted me saying that was one of two options I've arrived at :deal. And hearing glowing reviews about the company makes me really reconsider the rather large expense of a new one, thanks for the info Solo.

    However, if I can get a brand spanky new, fully adjustable and customized, dirt oriented shock made by reputable engineers (the WP engineers left and formed yacuga when it went to KTM), for $100 less than the best ohlins, I'm definitely going to start a group buy for them if there's interest.

    And, Solo, regarding that info, I'm not completely familiar with shock construction, and I'm getting confused about what's what. What is a "variable damper" and how does that work? So emulsion simply means that it doesn't have an external bladder, right. And from what I've learned of front suspension, a damper rod system is simply a piston with holes, but what is the comparable form of a "cartridge fork" for rear suspension with shim stacks? I was assuming that emulsion = damper rod, but that doesn't seem to be necessarily true. So, does the Works Ultrasport have a shim stack or holes? From what the technician there said, it was holes. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying things, set me straight here.
    #35
  16. Airhead Wrangler

    Airhead Wrangler Long timer

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    An emulsion shock has a single chamber where the oil is mixed with pressurized nitrogen. There is enough air (nitrogen) space in the top of the cylinder to allow for the piston rod to displace oil and not hydrolock. All the ones I've seen have a shim stack which allows for revalving. Some emulsion shocks allow adjustment of rebound damping, some do not. Reservoir shocks have the same type of cylinder as an emulsion shock but no airspace is left in the top. Instead they are connected to an external reservoir with a rubber bladder in it which keeps the pressurized nitrogen separate from the oil. In the top of that reservoir are adjustable valve(s) that control the oil flowing in. Some have a single valve which controls all compression damping, others have two separately adjustable valves for high and low speed compression damping. Because there air and oil are in contact in emulsion shocks aggressive riding, particularly offroad can cause the oil to foam thereby reducing damping effectiveness.
    #36
  17. ignatz72

    ignatz72 call me iggy

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    The word emulsion refers to the mixing of two insoluble things, in this case a liquid and a gas. Since they are insoluble, they don't form a new solution rather the two parts remain distinctly separate even though frothily mixed together.

    Here, the oil and nitrogen form a foamy mixture when vigorously operated in the shock. This reduces the effect of the oil passing through any valving (since some of the oil passing by is gas), and the performance of the shock is reduced.

    To what degree, :shrug, but that's the theory.

    A shock that never emulsifies (reservoir type) keeps more theoretical performance longer.

    Damnit, AW, you modified your post to make mine look redundant!
    #37
  18. naginalf

    naginalf Handy Schtroumpf

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    Thanks AW and Ignatz for the clarification.

    So I just found this after some digging around the Works site. I'm not impressed that they don't describe their function more clearly, but it sounds like a comparable system to shim stacks, and although I don't like not being able to adjust that valve with shims, their service looks to be top notch. So thanks guys, looks like a rebuild is in my near future, that is indeed the best deal I'm seeing now.

    "

    • Q: What does your re-valve consist of?
    • A: A Works' re-valve is called the Heart Transplant. We replace the stock piston with the patented Works Performance check-ball and spring piston, piston ring and valving components. Most other shock tuners re-valves consist of adding or removing a few shims. With a Works' re-valve you get a complete piston assembly, and for about the same price. The Heart Transplants are custom-valved to your vehicle, your riding weight and the kind of riding or racing that you do. All this for $179.00. If you need seals and the shaft bushing replaced, these repairs can be included for an additional $25.00 to $50.00, depending on what is necessary."
    Now, next question :evil. This ultrasport shock has adjustable rebound and an expansion chamber. Compression adjustment is simply adjusting the valve that goes to the rez, so is there any way to add that adjustable valve to my current system and get some compression adjustment? Or perhaps the way that works has their piston valving setup as described above, renders this unnecessary.

    Edit: Ok, decision made, just found this and any company who readily hands out a service manual is great in my book (although I'll still send it in for the work)! Works rebuild it is!
    #38
  19. naginalf

    naginalf Handy Schtroumpf

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    I was interested in seeing if the, as advertised, more offroad oriented S-MX model could be made to work for our airheads, but as it turns out, it is not only NOT feasible, but is unnecessary. Ted Porter got back to me after a visit to the factory (lucky). He informed me that the body will not fit (although I wouldn't mind modifying the subframe to make it if it was worth it) and that the F-RS model has the exact same internal parts. Personally, I just found out that we're having a kid, so I have no money for squat right now :D:cry:D:cry, but I'd really like to see someone check this out, give Ted a bit of business, perhaps even a group buy, and report about their performance (get yourself a decent driveshaft while you're at it :wink:). If you are in Europe, FTR suspension was offering a damn good group buy with only 5 orders!

    Eye candy for reference:
    [​IMG]
    #39
  20. bereahorn

    bereahorn Long timer

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    :ear
    #40