450cc ADV bikes

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by tokyoklahoma, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. MWadv

    MWadv Gravel Road Roamer

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    Check the manufacturers websites. The Europeans are ahead of the game. They have been making medium to big bore dual sports for years. See KTM, Husqvarna, Husaberg, Aprilia, BMW, CCM, Gas Gas. Some of the bikes from Japan are already set up for dual-sport also. See Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha. Some of these Japanese bikes may require minimal add ons to be fully street legal, based on your state DOT requirements and most of the Jap bikes are only 5 speed transmission types.
    You say,"a 250cc is just a bit small for toting a load of gear". Let me remind you a "Dual-sport is designed to ride on the street and on the dirt. It is not classified an "Adventure Bike". Most real dual-sport riders carry what they need in a back pack or a tank bag or tail bag.
    You say," 650cc is just a bit clumsy in the single-track. I think that is only relative to a riders ability and the degree of difficulty of the single track or it's condition.
    The Dakar bike are in a different universe compared to a dual-sport. They are "Full blown RACE BIKES" and don't believe any different. Also believe the riders who compete in the Darkar type races are World class riders.
    #21
  2. slabm7

    slabm7 Been here awhile

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    The truth is every persons desire in an adventure bike is different. Some people like the 250 class for single track and don't mind giving up some on the highway, others prefer the 650 class and ride more double track and dirt roads but like to be comfortable on the highway as well. I owned a DRZ400S and it is far from the perfect in between. I found it to heavy for single track and to high strung on the highway. Its not good at either. While at least a 250 is good and one and a 650 is good at the other. I upgraded my DRZ400S to a dual sported XR650R and it was the best decision I ever made. Same weight with 20 more hp. Its better at single track than the DRZ, better on the highway than the DRZ and the same if not better reliability.
    #22
  3. Twisted654

    Twisted654 Adventurer

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    Won't happen as long as the drz400 is more expensive then the dr650
    #23
  4. No False Enthusiasm

    No False Enthusiasm a quiet adventurer

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    Several good points made...

    Seems like Yamaha is close given the WR250R and the WR450F currently in the stable.

    European manufacturers have created and addressed this market.

    In the old days, Japanese manufacturers would have then stolen the market.

    "We don't need no stinkin' Rune... DN-01... (fill in the blank)."

    NFE
    #24
  5. lemieuxmc

    lemieuxmc Banned

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    I can't understand why the BMW 450 hasn't dominated all off road competitions or sold way more units than the KLR, DR, XRL 650's considering that BMW's engineering is so superior to the Japanese.


    ADVISORY WARNING!
    This is a facetious and sarcastic post, not so subtlety mocking BMW Motorrad for their lack of success with real dirt bikes.
    #25
  6. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Love those blue pipes

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    BMW did a 450 boxer from 78 to 85. It was a dog, barely able to get out of its own way. My old DR350 has a big bore kit, making it a low output, high torque 435. While it's capabilities are severely limited on-road when compared to bigger bikes, it certainly COULD go long distances with relative ease and would be MUCH better than its larger brethren. With a suitable rack and some tank panniers, it's quite a pack-mule too. Alas, not much use two-up.
    #26
  7. IheartmyNx

    IheartmyNx Ihave2draft

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    Wrong "boxer".

    Boxer as-in, Bore = Stroke. Same bore as stroke.

    Not a flat horizontally opposed engine like a Porsche/VW/Subaru/BMW.


    An over-square engine is a "big bore" :rolleyes
    And under-square engine has more stroke than bore... A lot of 2t's are this way...

    And lastly, a square engine has the same bore as stroke.

    Modern technology is just that... T'would be cool to see an engine square in its internals, ok maybe not even exactly, but EFI/computer controlled with cams that compliment it.
    #27
  8. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    My 450 EXC begs to differ.
    #28
  9. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    Having ridden both the WR250R and the 690 Enduro, my bet is that once you have both bikes set up to
    your liking you won't spend much time on the Yamaha. The Yamaha is a nice bike, but the 690 has
    the sort of power that will make you invent excuses to ride, just because it is so much fun :D
    #29
  10. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    Yeah, I heard David Knight really liked the BMW 450 he raced ...
    #30
  11. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer

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    It does pretty much boil down to that. I have been riding AMA dual sports for over ten years and seen the shift away from Japanese dual sports. The single most common bike I see on those rides anymore is the EXC 450.
    #31
  12. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Backyard Adventurer

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    Thanks for pointing that out - I found an interview: http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/off-road/2009/06/26/interview-david-knight/ which comically goes directly against the lying propaganda reviews of Motorcycle-USA when they wrote "If you were a gambling man, you'd have laid money on BMW's first-ever production enduro race bike being quirky and interesting but ultimately uncompetitive," then countered it in their 'review' http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/73/765/Motorcycle-Article/2009-BMW-G-450-X-Review.aspx

    Every time I get thinking I'd want a BMW - of any type - I get to researching them and find that they never were the latest and greatest thing, and that they'd drive me to the poor-house (farther than I already am) trying to keep them working...

    BMW - reliability like Italian bikes, but uglier.
    #32
  13. Crazy_Dave

    Crazy_Dave Back'in it in

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    03 KTM EXC450 with the RFS motor. I think this is one of the best bikes Ive ever owned.
    #33
  14. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer

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    I was checking out the TE449 at the DC show and the old BMW G450X looks pretty good in red now. The swingarm through the countershaft thing looks ridiculously complicated for the minimal benefits it provides. The bike also feels too wide at the footpegs compared to other 450 enduro bikes because of it. But at least the Husky modified version doesn't make you drop the swingarm for gearing changes like the BMW version.

    The clutch on the crankshaft thing is also pretty weird looking. I have no idea how that feels or works. But, again, it makes the motor wide at the brake so the ergos seem kind of funny. It feels more porky dual sport than skinny enduro at the footpegs. Overall it seems to me like BMW invented a couple of complicated solutions to non-existent problems with that motor and frame. But otherwise it looks like a pretty sweet enduro.

    IIRC, the bike magazine tests said it was a step backward from the old Husky TE450 but a step forward from the G450X. So it can't be all that bad as modified by Husky because the TE450 was a very good bike. So the BMW G450X does live on at BMW's new red headed step child company. It also looks like Husky did a good job of working with what they given in the deal.
    #34
  15. dualsportride

    dualsportride Been here awhile

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    The thing about the KTM 450 EXC it does well in the woods, and then you come home and it does good with supermoto tires on it. If you wanted to just do adventure type riding it would do well with that also. You can get a plate for it in any state, and you can pick up a 09 for under $5000.
    #35
  16. mrt10x

    mrt10x Dumba$s Jarhead

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    I will admit a bit of ignorance on the topic but what are the service intervals on a KTM 450 EXC? How much oil will it hold? I was always under the impression, maybe incorrectly, that the KTM's all required oil changes and valve checks far too frequently to be particularly useful as true "adventure" 450's. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    #36
  17. Crazy_Dave

    Crazy_Dave Back'in it in

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    That&#8217;s the only down side to almost all 450&#8217;s, the oil capacity. Most only hold a quart or less, KTM included. However KTM hardparts does make basically an oversize stator cover that bring it up to almost two quarts.
    I do a 10min valve check every third oil change, never needed adjustment yet. On my EXC450 you need to watch the I.N side more than the E.X side. The nice thing about the RFS motor is no shim and bucket, it&#8217;s a simple screw.
    It also has a WR transmission where my Husky had a close ratio transmission. It&#8217;s a world of difference on the street that no amount of regearing can compensate for.
    #37
  18. tokyoklahoma

    tokyoklahoma 75%has been 25%wanabe

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    I don't know about the world, but I am. If Yamaha announced the release of a WR450R, I would pre-order and buy sight unseen.
    The KTM horror stories about maintenance, scared me away.
    Although it looks like they have made some changes for '12 with reliability in mind. http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/2012-NEW-MOTOCROSS-BIKE-BUYERS-GUIDE-THE-2012-KTM-7872.aspx
    I already have a vintage bike to work on. I have been looking at the Husky, but would really prefer Japanese.
    #38
  19. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer

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    I just don't get waiting for the Japanese knowing that even if Yamaha or Honda did release a 450 dual sport the motor would be "retuned for midrange", the suspension would be a generation back and it would gain at least 50 pounds over the competition model. The best the Japanese have managed to do is the WR250R and it literally weighs as much as my 640 with maybe half the power.

    Meanwhile KTM builds an EXC 450 that is fast, handles great, has great brakes, is light weight, extremely rugged, adaptable and sitting at the dealer now. Don't want to pay KTM prices then buy used. I did. Husky also makes one that is pretty damned good and ready now. And having ridden with dozens of EXC's, I know for a fact that this idea of them being somehow fragile is complete nonsense.

    As for maintenance remember that an EXC maintenance schedule assumes race duty. The guys I know riding them as dual sports aren't doing anymore than I ever did to my Japanese dual sport bikes. As for oil capacity, my XT350 only held 3/4 of a quart and it saw 25k miles of very hard abuse. Keep it fresh, use good oil and it doesn't matter. I change the oil in dual sports a lot anyway because I ride mostly offroad.

    So keep on waiting for the Japanese if you want. I was a 23 year Yamaha dual sport rider and I certainly did for many years. But when they finally released a new dual sport it was a 300 pound 250. And I don't want ANY four stroke 250 much less one that heavy. Then I rode a couple of KTM's and the proverbial light bulb went off. I am not the least bit sorry to have tasted Koolaid. In fact, now I want more.
    #39
  20. Crazy_Dave

    Crazy_Dave Back'in it in

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    #40