450cc ADV bikes

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by tokyoklahoma, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Love those blue pipes

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    I saw a guy in a shop, looking to buy a piston and barrel for a nearly new, lightly used KTM 4-stroke (I don't remember the model.) These parts were being discussed as routine wear items and I think the bill for just those parts (maybe gaskets too) was going to be over £600 ($1000.) I don't know about the reliability but with parts prices like that I would certainly think very carefully before purchasing a KTM.
    #41
  2. mrt10x

    mrt10x Dumba$s Jarhead

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    As is the case with most threads on this topic, the lack of well defined terms has sidetracked the discussion. Half the posters are advocating 450 D/S KTM's when the OP clearly asked for input on a 450 ADV bike.. those are two different animals. Without a doubt the 300-500 KTM's are the class leader for D/S bikes.. those bikes that can be ridden to trail in reasonable comfort and then kick ass on the single track or in the desert. However, I do not recall any ride reports on some taking their KTM 450 XC-W or EXC's from Alaska to Panama like folks regularly do on the WR-R?? I guess I want it all... a KTM 450 that will do the miles the WR-R will do, be able to carry 40-50lbs of camping gear, go 200-250 miles between fill ups, 3000 miles between oil changes, and last 50000-100000 miles... cant someone build me that bike :rofl

    Of course the OP started the thread off poorly with his title wanting a 450 ADV bike and then discussing 450 D/S bikes... I would suggest those are two different bikes.
    #42
  3. Crazy_Dave

    Crazy_Dave Back'in it in

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    I dont know where you are buying parts but for my EXC 450.


    <TABLE id=carttable><TBODY><TR data-cart-id="21446230"><TD width=70>[​IMG] </TD><TD>KTM - PISTON CPL. 450 D=89MM SI.2 03
    Item: 59430007000 II



    </TD><TD><INPUT class=quantity type=number maxLength=3 value=1 jQuery16105459031063209923="42" max="999" min="0"> <INPUT class=apply type=submit value=Apply jQuery16105459031063209923="40"> </TD><TD width=100>$154.70 </TD><TD width=100>$154.70 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    Looks reasonable to me<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    #43
  4. dmaxmike

    dmaxmike former quadtard.

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    the new 500 exc (no FI 450EXC on the KTM usa website yet) has 1.5qt oil capacity, 100hr valve adjustments (non-race conditions) and oil changes every 15hr. in my mind that's weekend adv bike territory. im not sure anyone is ready to pay what it would cost to get KTM race bike with license plate performance with true adv/street bike service intervals. im not even sure you could do it? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    #44
  5. Dastard

    Dastard Just another guy

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    I would buy one TODAY. Trade in the WR250R on the spot. Put a deposit on it sight unseen, etc.

    ETA, 205'd, maybe I should read the whole thread before replying
    #45
  6. Jan from Finland

    Jan from Finland Registered

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    Never heard of boxer in that context. A square, over-square and under-square are well known engineering terms. For me a "big bore" is an engine with bigger bore than it had originally. Nothing to do with bore/stroke ratio. The same goes for a "stroker". However, for unknown reason, a short-stroke is usually over-square as well as a long stroke is under-square.
    #46
  7. tokyoklahoma

    tokyoklahoma 75%has been 25%wanabe

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    No problem, I see it as positive reinforcement.

    See I think that is part of the problem, race-bike performance expectations. That leads to race-bike service requirements. :baldy
    And I may be wrong, but all a 450 ADV bike is, is a 450 dual sport with a strong enough frame to carry a load. Lets face it a 450 would be more of a "long weekender" than a "long way rounder" and that's exactly what I want.
    IF...a KTM 450/500 EXC will do the job, and have reasonable service intervals, paying a grand (or two) premium over a WR250R (not a cheap bike for the cc) is acceptable to me. IF it does the job.:wink:

    The orange coolaid crew almost has me convinced to give one a shot.:1drink
    #47
  8. Ceri JC

    Ceri JC UK GSer

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    KTM 450 Rally with some soft bags. Nice bike, shame about the £30,000 price tag.
    #48
  9. vortexau

    vortexau Outside the Pod-bay

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    [​IMG]

    Meanwhile, back in 1968 Honda made good use of their 450cc parallel twin motor with torsion valve springing.
    #49
  10. dmaxmike

    dmaxmike former quadtard.

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    The way I see it is that everyone bitchs about current duel sports being heavy and antiquated and underpowered. See 250 R/X , DRZ400, XRL650, KLR650, ect ect ect. Their all old as shit designs except the 250 R/X and it&#8217;s still heavy, under powered, and overpriced.
    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    So basically everyone is bitching about wanting there dual sport to be more like there dirt bike. You can&#8217;t have your cake and eat it too. Not without spending a TON of money anyway. For my money and time available to go on trips I think a 500exc would fit the bill great. You could do long weekends without an oil change or valve adjustment and it would take you ANYWHERE you wanted to go. Just too bad it costs 10 grand and I&#8217;m 3in from touching the ground on it. <o:p></o:p>

    See this link for turning it into an adventure bike <o:p></o:p>
    #50
  11. mrt10x

    mrt10x Dumba$s Jarhead

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    I am not a spelling Nazi, but it is hard to take your posts seriously when you can't spell their correctly. There, their, they're … Three words, pronounced the same, different meanings, they are (or they’re if you want) not interchangeable.
    #51
  12. dmaxmike

    dmaxmike former quadtard.

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    No worries; but no mention of my missing paragraphs that did not show up even though I had them in there. That more than the correct spelling of there, their, or they're makes reading forums hard sometimes, I should edit it. :doh<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    #52
  13. mrt10x

    mrt10x Dumba$s Jarhead

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    Apparently I had a momentary stick up my ass.. now back to our regularly scheduled thread
    :rofl
    #53
  14. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer

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    The reason I bought my LC4E was that I rode a friend's SXC and could not believe that KTM managed to build a bike that fast, that well suspended and that light weight ten years ago. So I bought one. Now I have a 50+ horsepower dual sport that is all day comfortable, able to carry a load, has top shelf suspension and God's own brakes all wrapped up in a package that weighs within five pounds of a WR250R.

    So my twelve year old bike is WAY faster, better suspended, has way better braking and is still about the same weight as the current cream of the Japanese dual sport crop. These days you can get an EXC 450 or 500 that weighs 250 pounds, is crazy fast and 50 state street legal. Or if you need adventure bike range the 690 that is still only 313 pounds and seriously outperforms all of the Japanese 650's on power, weight and suspension.

    So, yes, I drink the the orange Koolaid. But that is because orange really does taste better than red, green, yellow and blue Koolaid. Waiting for a WR450R just makes zero sense to me whan you can buy excellent 50 state legal dual sports right now from 350cc up to 690cc. I quit asking why the Japanese are sitting on the sidelines of dual sport technology and went with orange team. Hopefully a plated EXC300 or maybe a 350 will follow me home next.
    #54
  15. Crazy_Dave

    Crazy_Dave Back'in it in

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    Good call.
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  16. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    On my KLX I check the valves every three or four years and change oil about every 5000 miles. I can't remember the last time I changed out a shim now. Can't remember the last time the manual cam chain tensioner had to be adjusted. It's only been 45,000 miles and going for more. I may not make the horsepower of a KTM, but I don't have to screw around with my bike as often. That's the one factor I like. If it was off road, it would be different. On the road I wanted reliability, it was my street bike and commuter.

    Japanese dual sports are detuned. Nature of the beast when it comes to what they feel the customer base needs. Most Japanese bike riders don't expect to have to mess with valves very often, most want to ride it and park it and ride it and park it. With the Japanese product, you can do that. No excuses, just the facts.

    One friend went to the KTM450 dual sport for more dirt riding and power, but after living with it for a year or so he went to a DRz400S. It was easier to live with, he just didn't have the time to deal with the KTM.
    #56
  17. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer

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    The thing is, if you really ride offroad you have to "mess" with the bike after every ride anyway. Wash the bike, clean the air filter, check spokes and bolts, fix flats, repair chash damage, etc. My last dual sport ride featured three hard crashes along with the shifter and speedometer cable sheared off by rocks, four sprocket bolts gone, a shredded tire, bent handlebars and a fuel hose torn off. All of which was not especially uncommon.

    Obviously if your idea of the offroad portion of dual sport riding is a somewhat more casual approach to trail riding then you can put afford to put the bike away wet. But that just isn't happening in my world. Even my low tech XT's and XL required maintenance after pretty much every offroad foray. So I think it is the way we ride offroad that separates orange team fans from other dual sport riders. I expect to have to work on any bike all the time.

    Sometimes you don't even make it back to the garage. :lol3

    [​IMG]
    #57
  18. tokyoklahoma

    tokyoklahoma 75%has been 25%wanabe

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    This post is VERY helpful.:D The only exposure I have had to KTM is from acquaintances that ride motocross, and everybody who races spends a lot of time wrenching.
    One question, and you can color me convinced.:1drink
    In that 12 years of dual-sport riding, how many engine rebuilds have you done? Or has it just been routine maintenance, and fixing trail damage.:ear

    Our local Yamaha dealer is also our local KTM dealer, so no problem finding a bike.:lol3
    #58
  19. Crazy_Dave

    Crazy_Dave Back'in it in

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    I check my DR650 and DRZ400 just as often as I do the KTM. It’s just the way I ‘am about my bikes.
    The DR and DRZ are rock solid but in no way can they be compared to KTM. Both are overweight and under powered in comparison.
    As stated above if you ride off road you are going to do more preventative maintenance than if you don’t, just the way it is.
    #59
  20. rivercreep

    rivercreep Banned

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    :D What struck me as "funny" about his post was...
    I was thinking to myself that if I had a 12 yr old Bike (with the mileage I've always put on them) the damn thing would have roughly 120,000 miles on it by now. :huh
    Only reason I mention the above is because we're talking about (or at least I thought we were?) Adventure bikes that see lots of miles every year and since KTM miles are measured in hours (kind of like Dog years) well; I was also wondering how many rebuilds his KTM has gone through.:ear
    F.W.I.W. I also see a distinct difference between a dualsport and and ADV bike, in how they're used.:1drink
    #60