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Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by DOUBLE-O G, Nov 3, 2012.
No, they took two heels off an Accord, cut down the windshield and called it the F6B.
As far as cars go, they seem to be in a race with Toyota to build cars that are the most boring in the world. Let's do a recap of where their interesting cars have gone, shall we?
S2000: Dead. A fantastic ragtop sports car, more fun than the Miata and half the cost of the Boxter.
NSX: Dead. The first hint that the Japanese were interested in making near-supercars. Imaging how much better the NSR would be over the GT-R if Honda kept making it?
Civic SI: Life support. Bigger, heavier, less powerful.
CRX: Reincarnated as the CR-Z, a prius wannabe.
Is anyone surprised that Honda also makes predictable, reliable, most not very exciting bikes? And if you look at the GT86/FR-S/BRZ, Toyota is showing more signs of life than Honda right now.
OK. 4 Wheels good, 2 wheels better. Back to bikes.
The F6B has a centerstand? How the #^$#@& are you supposed to get that thing up on the stand?
You are pretty far out of touch in regards to the business.
Sports cars typically have a 5 year shelf life before buyers move on to whatever is newer and better. The S2000 was sold for 8 years if I remember correctly. With the increasingly tough safety standards it would have needed a total redesign, and there was enough of a business case for building today, they would.
NSX; same thing, it sold for almost 15 years, and when it was time to decide to build a new one the recession hit.
Civic Si; in its most recent redesign it lost 50 pounds, and gained about 40 ft.lbs of torque, along with 7 or 8 hp.
CRX? There is no such thing. The CRZ is NOT a CRX. How many other successful low priced 2 seaters are available today other than the Miata?
Piece of cake....just like my 1800....a simple clean and jerk!
The new Toyabaru BRZ FR-S. Okay, okay, their success remains to be seen.
That, and they seat 4.
Good try tho.
Just saw the new Hondas at the Seattle IMS. Just my opinions, but...
I don't see the stripped Wing selling that well, based both on too much money for what it is (20 grand base, a couple G's more for the deluxe) and listening to the questions being asked of the Honda personnel. 20 grand + the usual is a lot of money for a huge bike with none of the features usually expected by Wing buyers on a bike that looks to me like it will buffet the crap out of you.
The CB1100 is a really sweet bike. Lots of chrome, great paint and build quality and what looks to be upgraded suspension for $9,999. I'll be interested to see if it sells well or remains a niche bike.
I think their 500 twins will sell well in the 5 to $6K price range. I especially like the X version. Economical, reliable and is at least showroom comfortable. I can see myself owning one.
I think with the new 500s and 700s the Chinese will have to work to sell a quality bike for less money than the new Hondas.
No kidding, didn't realize. Haven't been much into the car world since I got into bikes. Last non-trucks I owned - a Miata and an E30.
The F6B isn't for Current GW buyers, it's aimed at guys shopping Vaqueros, Cross Country's and whatever HD baggies.
I was strangely attracted to the 500X too.
You may be right about who it's aimed at, but during the brief period I stood around the bike at the IMS, I think I was the only non-Wing owner asking questions. Myself I'd go for the Victory XC or XC Tour as even the F6B doesn't have nearly the leg room of those two. Or maybe the Rocket 3 bagger.
I see where Honda hasn't announced the X price yet and won't make it available in the States until July. Maybe to give the NC700 a better chance to establish a foothold? Bastids!
Might be. I bet the CB500X cannibalizes a lot of NC700X sales.
I think it looks pretty sharp, and will look much better with an aftermarket exhaust and rear fender eliminator kit. Check out the 360 spin here... it looks especially sharp from the front: http://powersports.honda.com/2013/cbr500r/360.aspx
I think so too.
Almost the same mpg, slightly better bhp, easier to carry luggage and refuel.
I have a Ninja 250 as my city/sometimes commute bike right now and think the CB500 in F or X trim would be a good step up for what I use the Ninja for. I don't care so much about the power difference, but the Ninja is just too small for me size wise and if I can average 55mpg with the Honda I'm sold on it.
My daily commuter is a nekkid Bandit 1200 with windscreen and Givi monokey luggage system.
Never said I was in touch with the business. Just the cars, which Honda doesn't appear to be.
How hard would it have been to update the S2000 and build a AP3 version? Honda refreshes every other model every 4 years or so. They can make cars competitive with others in their market segment - that is what made Honda great. Your comment about sports cars having a 5 year shelf life is exactly my point - Honda decided it was better to kill the S2000 than update it.
As for the NSX, clearly, there is no market for such a car. That's why there's the GT-R, right? And the 911? And the Z06 and ZR1? And the M3? And the R8 and RS5? Go to your local track day and count the GT-Rs you see. I always see tons of them, maybe a third of the cars there. I have to smile when I see the occasional NSX, and then want to cry for what could have been.
I will grant you the specs of the SI are better than the previous version. Its up to 200 Hp and down to 2950 lb. That puts it in the same power/weight of the GTI, which is a great car but not exactly a rocket ship. And I haven't driven it, so I can't comment on the handling balance. But its well behind other hot hatches (Mazdaspeed3, Focus ST) in terms of power. And where is the hatchback version? Ford is selling hot hatches in the US, but not Honda?
And the CRZ could have been a new CRX, but it wasn't. As far as what they could have built, witness the BRZ/FRS Toybaru twins. Yes, it technically has a back seat, but only for those without legs. And the "old" Honda wasn't concerned with building only what everyone else did, or you'd never have the CRX, NSX, groundbreaking 3rd gen Civic, etc.
You can point to the recession, market demand, whatever, but Honda has chosen to make cars that are, for the most part, boring. Nobody made them do this. Mazda stuck with the Miata through the Carpocalypse despite tough sales (they had $5000 incentives on them at one point). Nissan continued with the GT-R. Porsche revamped the Boxter. Toyota and Subaru made the BRZ/FRS. The Focus and Fiesta STs are coming to the US. The M3 lives on. The RS5 returns. The C7 is due out soon. The best that Honda can give us is a 200Hp, 2950lb FWD Civic SI?
Blah blah. They're not dead yet. Thankfully they're still making money, and the cars are coming back. Go try a new Accord. The NSX IS returning. At least their quality hasn't taken a nose-dive.
So true. The four cylinder six speed manual Accord does 6.6 sec zero to sixty! I think the v6 with the manual does like 5.6, correct me if i am wrong on that one.
I am a big Honda freak. 99 percent of all my cars and bikes. I am now car shopping. It is hard to go spend my money on cars that interest me on paper, even nice to drive, but leave me cold with fear regarding quality and reliability
For me, 20 to 30k does not grow on trees.
So, the Focus ST has some build quality issues. Ford is not allowing some to go to dealers until they have been checked, some folks are returning their cars to get a new one.
Mini Cooper S: terrible reliability, clutch replacement is 2400, brakes 1000, not to mention the timing chain issues and the car catching on fire because of the secondary fuel pump. This has been corrected, but what next?
While I am not smitten with the latest cars from Honda, exterior styling, i find that i can deal with that when you factor in what you get.
Just for the record, i had one Subie, and one Toyota. Before i buy anything, I want to check out/drive a BRZ/FRS.
And bikes: since my Hawk GT is NOT dying anytime soon, I have not found any bikes that I just had to have. I can wait for something to interest me. That said, the CBX500 and NC700x are two examples that do interest me.