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Discussion in 'Airheads' started by meijer's trails, Jan 9, 2013.
Well, I removed the miniature hardware store today...oh I mean the instrument cluster.
With care you can take these apart. One thing to get right is that when you put it back together don't over tighten the screws. The cover plastic breaks if the screws are more than snug. You can get it to the stage of disassembily shown in the parts fisch. Problems start when riders try to take the speedo or the tach units apart further.
If the gaskets #4, #11 and #16 are in usable shape be careful with them. They are NLA. (a term used for our bike parts that are No Longer Available)
#15 should be available if you need it.
And don't drop or loose the tiny screws they are NLA.
I thnk the only fasteners they didn't use were some reed and prince metric screws!
Anyway, I was trying to post a video.its not bleed over from another light because it happens about 1/2 a second after the other lights come on. Maybe the video camera is not fast enough to show that.
Also, removing the the turn relay causes the indicator light to be off, and the other light are on.
I cleaned all the contacts and checked the transparency printed circuit board for little like. Didn't see any. Cut with an exacto a couple of suspect spots.
I have a great idea!! Let's just print the circuit onto film!
I did clean all the little connections in that rubber block.
Cleaned all the brown wire connections inside the bucket.
I moved the wires away from the sides of the headlight bucket to make sure north was worn there.
I moved the Grey flasher relay wire away from the unused upper right(as you look into the bucket) male connector, in case there was a worn spot.
I didn't ovalize the female connectors, but all but one seemed great. I'll try it though. Its easy enough.
I made a tiny cone of 400 grit sandpaper to clean inside the connectors, then some contact cleaner sprayed.
I tried measuring voltage at the indicator connections on the block, but it was zero without the rest of the instrument cluster installed.
Maybe the relay is bad?
It's starting to look like the only suspect. I've never had this problem. Do you think it is possible to take the relay apart and clean/fix it? I have cleaned the contacts in other relays but the turn signal relay on Airheads are not a normal type, are they?
back to post #2:
1. Sounds like the relay is working correctly and sending the "flashing" power to the indicator bulb (black/white wire from the relay to the bulb); but I wonder if the relay might continue to send a "weak" power conncetion to the bulb? Do you have another relay that you can use for testing purposes? (I have an extra.)
It would be worth a try to take the relay apart and inspect/clean. One could try to watch it in operation when the cover is off. Then, throw it in the garbage and go buy a new relay.
The part number for the flasher relay is 61 31 1 358 194. It is listed for $92.75 at Max BMW. About the same price anywhere else. I believe it is possible to use something else but you loose some feature when you do that. I know there are articles somewhere about doing this. Maybe on the ABC site. Once again we get to the thing about you have to be a member of ABC to look at the articles there. But I think the relay is covered somewhere else also. I'll try to do some more research on the relay.
I've never looked into it because I have never had one go bad and if that should happen tomorrow I have an extra anyway. Not everybody will have an extra hundred dollar relay but I took apart a /6 bike a few years ago and have most of the parts still.
But we don't know for sure it is a bad relay do we? Nobody else has piped up that had this exact same problem?
The turn signal relay is a Hella part, made in Germany, of course. Hella #002 479-08. There is a long article on Snowbum's site and he tells how to use an ordinary three prong relay. I also found and article about taking the relay apart and cleaning it.
i had the same problem on my r90/6. the indicator light on the cluster would glow most of the time. i probably took the instruments apart 10 times trying to find it. bought a flasher relay at autozone for less than ten dollars, now it works perfectly! i found the part number either on the "dark secrets revealed" thread or on snowbum's website.
A /6 relay is a three/four pronged affair in the bucket, right? If so, I'd imagine taking it apart to inspect should be easy enough.
However, I just replaced my dead starter relay (on a GS) which I opened up to inspect. It looked assembly line new inside, yet it was dead. So don't count on internal appearance as a factor in whether it needs replacing.
I would recommend stock parts when troubleshooting electrical issues, since getting a relay substitute that isn't 100% right could lead you astray if it still doesn't work! But SHEESH, that relay is pricey!
+ 1. A stock relay is a sure bet, but one might consider the Kisan SM-1 signalMinder.
For the price of the stocker, yes the Kisan is a good bet. However, I would still be hesitant to apply an upgrade to a circuit that may still have problems.
If the dash light issue isn't resolved first, who knows how it will react with a Kisan. Of course the Kisan introduces it's own issue with the single dash indicator...
According to Max BMW this is the "Hazard Warning Relay" 61 31 1 358 194. It is 4 prongs. It is taller than a standard size relay, most any other relay. And it has a clip on the back so it can be attached to the place in the headlight shell made for it. It fits 1974 to 1980 Airheads.
It is possible to make the system work with another relay but I forget now what it is you loose. It is probably the way to go since the OEM part is so outrageously priced.
Cleaning is an option, if you are lucky. It may or may not work but if nothing else is fixing this problem I guess you have nothing to loose by trying to fix the one you got.
There is more info on Snowbum's site. If you need help finding the exact article or don't know what I'm talking about then I'll give you more of an explanation. Snowbum's site has tons of useful info but I'm one of those that tires of trying to make sense of it sometimes. I count Mr. Snowbum is a personal friend. I don't know if he would say the same thing about me. But he can really ramble on sometimes tho.
My take? Airheads are all about "Simpli Fi". For decades I've used a $5.45 Buss flasher relay that does everything that the stock OEM /5 unit does. Even works with LED lamps. I'm sure that there is a 3 or 4 prong Buss repaly that will work.
All of the replies are correct,but I would go with the assumption of a bad ground first. It is easy enough to verify. As previously stated, it is forming a ground at the glowing light. With the power on, simply start activating the other circuits.
When you hit the right one, the lamp will go out, as well as the at fault lamp circuit.
If that is not the case, then you'll have to start looking at relays and such.
While probably not related, the larger red wires going into the start relay under the tank on left side, should be cleaned up, anytime you have the tank off. They are notorious for causing all sorts of difficult to trace maladies.
Airheads really are pretty simple to work on, compared to almost anything built in the last twenty years or so.
Just my 2¢.
I think that the earth route for the indicator bulb in the instuement case is via the leads that go to the hydraulic fluid level switch which is at the mastercylinder underneath the fuel tank.
Do you front indicators have earth wires ? If not fit them.
We might be able to help more if you would mention what year this bike is. Maybe you have posted it later? But it's not in the original post which is where I looked for it. There are three years for /6 and two versions of wiring.
Thanks for the outpouring of help.
Sorry I never mentioned its a 1974 r60/6.
I did disassemble the relay, and it too looked factory new inside. I sprayed some contact cleaner anyway.
So I opted for the trico el13 snow bum replacement rrelay, which is now 12.99 at advance auto.
The "hazard" function you lose is that of a burned out turn signal bulb,
Causing the signals and I indicator to stay solid "on" no flashing on the side of the burned out bulb.
Anyway, the leak was inside the relay somehow. All the grounds and fuses were good.
I'm more than willing to lose that warning feature.
I've got no fairings so I just look at my turn signals periodically to make sure they're flashing
Did you re-configure the female side of the unit? The Trico 13 is 3 prongs.