800GS - Look at My Cam and Oil Leak

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Lost Roadie, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. Lost Roadie

    Lost Roadie Rider

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,593
    Location:
    On The Road
    My F800GS with about 7,000 miles at the time developed a minor oil leak while thrashing it around Moab.
    Carefully watching the oil levels, 2 days later I got it to a dealer, and while they were "fixing" it, more than one tech was standing around my bike looking at the cam, and what appears to be chunks of metal missing from it.

    I would like to hear your thoughts, especially if you have some first hand knowledge about cams on an f800 or similar Rotax engine.
    I believe that it was made this way, and didn't break off in the engine. I've changed the oil 3 times myself and there's been no debris on the magnetic plug.
    I was told this is normal, and was done in the casting process. :huh

    It still doesn't look right, so I figured I's ask the experts. :wink:
    BTW, a cause for the oil leak was not found, according to the dealer the head was torqued correctly and there was nothing wrong with the gasket... they added some liquid gasket to it and it hasn't leaked.


    First started leaking oil
    [​IMG]




    at the nearest (open) dealer in the direction I was heading



    [​IMG]







    The Cam... all of them had a chunk missing kind of close to the lobe.
    [​IMG]
    #1
  2. larryboy

    larryboy Chopper Rider

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2005
    Oddometer:
    17,290
    Location:
    Über Alles,California
    Not normal. More than likely those chunks are floating around waiting to grenade the thing. I'd insist on a full engine tear down and inspection or they can buy it back. This is a safety issue and present it that way to get what is right.


    Edit: They replaced that cam of course....right?
    #2
  3. mr moto

    mr moto Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Oddometer:
    610
    Location:
    Praha Czech Republic
    That absolutely does not look right at all !!! I would not even dare to start the engine with those big chunks of metal missing from the camshaft. who knows what sort of damage it has done elsewhere inside the engine. I would demand a complete rebuild of the engine or a new bike .
    #3
  4. Lost Roadie

    Lost Roadie Rider

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,593
    Location:
    On The Road
    The texture of the "missing" parts was the same as the rest of the rough casted part. I have put thousands of miles on it since then, it runs great.
    I don't see how if those chunks came off and were not part of the casting how I couldn't have had major problems already, or found some debris in the oil filter.
    3 different dealers have told me that same thing, don't worry about it.
    I don't think it looks right either, but if the bikes running good, and at least one trusted source is telling me not to worry...
    I'm not trying to argue any point, just throwing out the details...

    I can't be the only one to have this many miles on a F800, or had engine opened up, hasn't anyone else seen the innards of the Rotax engine?
    #4
  5. NCD

    NCD Dirty Hairy

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    634
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Between the missing zones, and the scoring of the surface ... I would be furious if that were my engine. Now, I know its "normal" to have some voids at the edges sometimes - but that far into (almost the middle) of the machined surface?
    #5
  6. simmersonwheels

    simmersonwheels Asleep at Switch

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Oddometer:
    116
    Location:
    Canuck Left Coast, Courtenay BC
    I hope at the very least they replaced the camshaft and buckets, and inspected the journals for wear.
    I make my living as a bike tech and I would never button that up. At the very least I'd order a new cam to see if the new part exhibited similar voids, unless I'd seen similar defects on many other 800's.
    Simon
    #6
  7. tac650

    tac650 Nomad

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Oddometer:
    524
    Location:
    Salem, OR
    Man that is just wrong looking. Chunks look like they were broken and not machined. BMW needs to tear down that engine and have a look for you. :cry
    #7
  8. TheCowboy

    TheCowboy back in the saddle again

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Oddometer:
    611
    Location:
    The frozen tundra - Minny Sota
    I been an aircraft mechanic for over 40 years... if I opened up an engine and saw that - complete tear-down - end of story.

    Cowboy:ricky
    #8
  9. The Griz

    The Griz Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,851
    Location:
    Minnesota
    That's messed up man. I'd be so friggin' pissed. For $12,000 you should get an engine without chunks missing and without oil leaks for 40,000 miles.

    Anyone else have similar mileage to ChiTown? Anyone else reporting oil leakage or any engine problems? Shit's got me worried. Not at all what I expected from Rotax.
    #9
  10. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    15,230
    Location:
    Richmond, Va
    I'm not sure I'd be worried about this. It looks like it's the low point of the cam lobe where nothing rides on it.

    It looks to me like it's been cast with those areas missing.

    I seem to remember one of my bikes having cut outs at the same point on the cam. Instead of being to one side or the other, the lobes were notched on either side so the center was the machined surface. It looked odd to me, but was consistent with all the lobes on the cam, so I was OK with it.

    Are all the lobes similarly "chunked"?

    Is that the only photo you have?

    I can't tell if we're looking at the exhaust or intake cam.
    #10
  11. larryboy

    larryboy Chopper Rider

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2005
    Oddometer:
    17,290
    Location:
    Über Alles,California

    I've been into thousands of engines and I've never seen shoddy cams like that...EVER. From lawn mowers to $30,000 diesels..NEVER. I can't even grasp that a tech of any kind would say it's normal, let alone 3 dealerships.
    #11
  12. Bigem

    Bigem Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,661
    Location:
    Qld
    Thats bad!! Where the fuck have the "bits" gone! To me, its an engine strip and new cams etc etc
    Mate, its fucked!!

    That would be "chunking" the buckets. More than half the lobe rubbing surface has gone? Its not normal!

    The "top" will be coming off mine before the warranty expires!!
    #12
  13. pelvis_98

    pelvis_98 Havin A Time

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,035
    Location:
    Oxford Station, Ontario
    If that was normal, why would more than one tech come out to see it?
    #13
  14. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    7,712
    Location:
    central USA
    That is a defect, Honda went thru this with the first gen Sabre V4, the Worst bike ever.

    The oil filter will catch big chunks very efficiently. Hopefully the oil pump has safety margin for it's wear.

    New cam, new followers, minimum

    If can check or replace oil pump then much better

    Oil pressure test minimum

    Rod
    #14
  15. Lost Roadie

    Lost Roadie Rider

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,593
    Location:
    On The Road

    Unfortunately that's the only photo I have. The bottom of the photo is the rear of the engine, the intake??
    Yes all of the lobes look "chunked" from what I remember.
    They said what you said, nothing rides on that part of the cam and therefore not to worry about it.






    Thanks for all the replies...
    I'm not pissed, or furious, or even mad at all. I try not to get upset over mechanical things. Human's make machines, machines are not perfect no matter how much you pay for them... even the space shuttle crashed...

    Not that it should matter, but I "broke" this engine in at Death Valley, kind of following the take easy instruction, but not really. I then just rode the piss out of the 8GS in many kinds of environments, never taking it easy and basically "using" the GS as it designed to be used and abused. Of course I changed the oil and did maintenance it when it was time. The bike has performed wonderfully, with the exception of the minor oil leak ( I never had to add oil in the 1000 mile trek to a dealer).
    However, I do get upset over poor treatment from a person who's job it is to take care of my mechanical possessions, but in this instance that is not the case.
    The dealer that fixed my oil leak got me right in, gave me a loaner, and sent me on my way as fast as possible - I was far from home and wanting to keep moving asap, therefore new cams or whatever wasn't going to happen. They did what I wanted, and after asking a trusted source at another dealer I was fine with getting back on the road.
    I'm not sure what to do now, the bike runs great, but the comments in here are persuasive.... I'm just riding the frikin' bike. :deal
    I guess I will take it to Chicago BMW along with this photo and see what they say, I know a few of the master mechanics pretty well and trust them.
    I don't really like dealers working on my bike per se, and I do all my own maintenance on my boxer engine.... but as much as I think that it looks fucked up and just not right, I also don't believe there's some kind of conspiracy to cover up this weird looking cam...
    I guess time will tell as f800 owners start to open up their engines...


    cheers

    Joe
    #15
  16. marty hill

    marty hill The Energizer Bunny

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Oddometer:
    4,568
    Location:
    marietta, ga.
    Joe, I'd be curious as to what Pete says. Say hi to Mike and Mark for me.:D
    #16
  17. Lost Roadie

    Lost Roadie Rider

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,593
    Location:
    On The Road
    will do!
    #17
  18. Bicyclist

    Bicyclist Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    555
    Location:
    Maryland
    As I posted over on the F800 forum:
    While it does look ominous, if you look at the parts fiche, it shows some sort of notches at that location.

    The thing I'd be concerned about is that the gap on the left lobe looks as though it impinges on the area rubbed by the cam follower, or drag lever, as BMW calls it.
    #18
  19. Moving Pictures

    Moving Pictures Sir Loin of Biff

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Oddometer:
    8,571
    Location:
    God's Country, New Brunswick
    Ah, well. Hope you got warranty.
    #19
  20. beerrun

    beerrun Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2008
    Oddometer:
    61
    Location:
    Central Indiana
    If thats normal then why is the cam lobe burnt on the good side?????????????? your drag lever is probably wearing at an alarming rate. You may have metal blockage at your oil pump sufficient enough to cause overheating, and who knows what that grimlin will eat up. Its a casting defect pure and simple. the heat associated with grinding may have changed the hardness, or just caused it to weaken further. Why would a reputable dealer bawk at any warranty work?:ddog
    #20