800GS shock bolt design flaw?

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by johngil, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. DockingPilot

    DockingPilot Hooked Up and Hard Over

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Oddometer:
    10,823
    Location:
    Andover, N.J.
    A dollar to a donut you see that changed in 2011 models, umongst other things.
    I mean how much would you pay to get a hold of the dope who ok'd this frame design and grab him by the neck tie and say "you flippin arrogant idiot, is this the 1st bike you designed" ?

    Hey, where's Griz anyway, these threads don't quite have the entertainment value they once did :lol3
  2. trustme

    trustme Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,140
    Location:
    Auckland , New Zealand
    The engineer in me looks at Bruno's last picture & shudders.
    DP, you assume this was actually designed buy an engineer, computer analysis probably said it was OK, but people in the real world often know better, looks to me like the cross tube could do with some bracing as well
  3. johngil

    johngil Reseda, CA

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,816
    Ya think?

    [​IMG]

    If I have to fix this myself, this is kind of what I was thinking. It may be cryptic, but some of you get the idea. The yellow would be new and welded in.
    This wouldn't be a big deal if the cross tube weren't bent. Still, I don't think it is heavy enough to carry the load over time.

    [​IMG]
  4. llamapacker

    llamapacker Mr. Conservative

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,646
    Location:
    Louisiana (North)
    Need to add another ear like the one on the left but closer, then redesign the bushings for what ever they do, attach seat or whatever.

    I am assumeing there is some meat to weld another ear to in that area.

    I don't like the split bushings in the Ohlins either.
  5. johngil

    johngil Reseda, CA

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,816
    Fixed it.
  6. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    16,241
    Location:
    Richmond, Va
    Yawn
  7. johngil

    johngil Reseda, CA

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,816
    Joel, as you have stated, my problem is not going to go away. If BMW doesn't step in, or I don't file a claim w/ my insurance company the bolts will continue to bend due to the previous damage. I don't have the $2000 + to just buy a frame. I do own a few tools, have a few friends, and a TIG machine. That and some beer should provide a fix for the time being.

    I'll take my chances w/ orange.
    I started racing them in 2001 and have been pleased.
  8. mookymoo

    mookymoo Mookish Mook

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,400
    Location:
    Either UK or Australia ...
    Now now ... dont send this thread off on a tangent...

    If it makes you feel any better, here is what happens when you treat 1st year model KTM 950's like a motocross bike. (this occured during a day of jumping the 950 off dunes - one day of many apparently)

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=470371

    After reports of a number of cracked swingarms on the 03 bikes, KTM had to up-rate the part.

    If there are enough reports of shock mount bending, BMW will have to do the same.

    (BTW, the shock mount wasnt bent on the 950 :hide)
  9. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,410
    Location:
    Nor Ca.
    I thought the rims were made out of old beer cans already:norton
  10. trustme

    trustme Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,140
    Location:
    Auckland , New Zealand
    As a public service please note that all motorcycle manufacturers are infallible & we mere mortals have no right to query them. Ralph Nader is a total toss pot who had no idea of what he was talking about, after all how could the car manufacturers possibly get it wrong & how could he possibly know better . I seem to remember that even aviation engineers have on occasion got it wrong,Of course we have absolutely no right to criticise because we are just the dummy end user, what the hell would we know.
    I apologise for my temerity in questioning motorcycle designers . no doubt I will burn in hell for this outburst.
  11. llamapacker

    llamapacker Mr. Conservative

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,646
    Location:
    Louisiana (North)
    I have no interest in the KTM or a boeing, but I was looking at a BMW F800GS, makes a difference to me.

    Didn't notice the crossmember being bent earlier, that would probably need to be cut out and a stronger piece welded in with the ears already attached of course. I weld and mod, so could fix that ONE, but the design still exists, I don't like it.

    P.S. Oh yeah, the GS is pretty heavy right now. Weighed my wife's 658 with bags and bars, only 15lbs lighter than my Tiger with full tank of gas and bags, bars. So don't start trying to sell me how light it is, not buying that either.
  12. Bruno T .

    Bruno T . N8YQ

    Joined:
    May 20, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,002
    Location:
    Detroit area, MI
    That's how a 9 year old would frame it.

    Another way would be;

    It isn't feasible to engineer components to a standard which encompasses all variables. There will always be extraordinary circumstances which fall outside of the scope of the component's engineered parameters.

    And i certainly agree with that.

    I'll repeat myself just so it's clear.

    I consider the circumstances under which my bolt bent to be extraordinary. I consider them to fall within the category of extraordinary because;

    a) The rear shock was subjected to a fairly violent G-out
    b) I was not using the factory installed shock
    c) I'm not certain that the spring rate was correct on my aftermarket shock
    d) Since replacing the components the problem has not re-occured

    I will also repeat myself with regard to the design of the rear shock mount.

    Since i'm not an engineer, i have no clue as to the strength of the rear shock mount. Under the circumstances described above, in my case, the bolt bent. Nothing more, nothing less.

    From my layman's perspective, in comparison to the various other shock mounts i depicted, the mount on the F8 looks inferior in strength. Note how i state "looks inferior". I can only say it that way because i have no factual information to prove that statement.

    Again, the mount as delivered from the factory has proven adequate for my use (as explained in an earlier post) barring the circumstances i mention above.
  13. Law Dawg (ret)

    Law Dawg (ret) Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2003
    Oddometer:
    820
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Just a thought here (not an engineer but I can think...sometimes, even though it hurts). Even if the cross piece is replaced how would one go about returning the two outside frame members to their original width? How about other related/attached frame geometry? This one needs to be fought at the highest levels of (shudder) BMW corporate. I'd hold out for a new bike as your frame makes me fret.

    That said, if BMW corp does what we long time Beemer riders expect it to and kicks you to the curb, I will be very interrested in what your redneck tech redo looks like. Seems to me that if you replace the cross brace some further modifications could be made to the top mounting for the shock. Fingers crossed for you.
  14. johngil

    johngil Reseda, CA

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,816
    BMWNA is requesting more photos. I don't think I have posted this one before. This was the original bent bolt and stock shock. I've been under that seat a lot.

    [​IMG]
  15. Lion BR

    Lion BR I'd rather be riding

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,633
    Location:
    Oregon
    I guess removing the ABS paraphernalia should help with weight reduction.

  16. v8toilet

    v8toilet Nothing to see here.

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,738
    Location:
    Northwest U.S.
    Why in every third or fourth comment does someone mention the Ohilns as a possible culprit?

    John has said multiple times the bolt bent with the stock shock. BMW should replace the frame. The End. Was the bolt under torqued, or some other part at fault? Possibly the but the end result is a bent shock mount and it needs replaced.

    My F800 just arrived today and it may be the last BMW (#6) I own and at the rate things are going, I'm going to give BMW until next spring (which I shouldn't but I don't want to deal with it right now) to get this bike sorted or its gone and so is my business. My last BMW 05 R1200 had one warranty item otherwise it was great and it was a first year model. The F8 has some teeth cutting problems if you look at the Beasts top threads they aren't screaming go buy an F800GS.
  17. DockingPilot

    DockingPilot Hooked Up and Hard Over

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Oddometer:
    10,823
    Location:
    Andover, N.J.
    Joel makes a good point.
    Time will tell what the truth is here fellas. In the meantime, I bet John gets a new frame or a new 2010. Thats my guess. Heres hopeing the best for John :freaky
  18. cisco

    cisco old fat guy

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    288
    Location:
    The city of seven wounders
    I've been fallowing this story, and I was convinced that it was a simple problem of the bolt not being tight enough. This set of photos tells me a differant story. It look, to me, that BMW designed a ton of leverage on a lot of parts. The bolt has a ton and the cross tube also has a TON. Look at any dirt bike and you'll see that the force of the rear shock is transmitted in as straight line as possible to the back bone and on to the steering head. The BMW design is relying on a cross tube that is perpendicular to the shock. What did they think was going to happen? To me( a dummy welder) it looks like the only way to "fix" this is to replace the cross tube and try to fit a/ some tubes to transfer the force of the shock in a strait line to the frame.The bunt cross tube looks bent beyond the point of coming back, it's stretched too much. I have been involved in the welding/machine shop business for 33yrs now. I'm not an engineer, but I've seen a lot of broken and bent stuff. Most of the time the parts tell you what needed to be done. If BMW won't take care of this let me know, my shop is and my skills are yours.
    CISCO
  19. Bigem

    Bigem Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,715
    Location:
    Qld

    I think a statement like that is a bit premature, don't you?

    What will you post in 6 months time if you have no problems?

    Will you apologise for shit-canning something that YOU supposedly paid big money for?

    Personally, I love the bike and fully expect some issues, that's the nature of the beast.

    Going on the sheer numbers of F800GS's being sold around the world(even Australia is buying 200+ a month), the actual real world numbers of problems is very very small and from some of what I have read and seen, some issues are owner induced.

    Of the half dozen people I know who own them, nobody is having any issues that I know of.

    Same can't be said of some other well selling bikes around at the moment!
  20. guzzimike

    guzzimike Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,420
    Location:
    Them Thar Hills WA Australia
    The Internet is a dangerous place for paranoid people.
    On the Guzzi forum I sometimes frequent the paranoia would increase a lot in the northern winter when people had nothing better to do than worry about what was wrong with the bike
    Of the half dozen people I know who own them, nobody is having any issues that I know of.

    Same can't be said of some other well selling bikes around at the moment![/quote]