848 Buell Ulysses?

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by 2trally, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. anonny

    anonny What could go wrong?

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,757
    Location:
    Beautiful Revelstoke BC
    If you have the money and time I'd advise you to build it, otherwise how will you ever know. I love this kind of stuff!
    #21
  2. 2trally

    2trally Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Oddometer:
    62
    Location:
    Arizona
    On dirt there could be an argument for lower power being better so I wasn't sure. 120-130hp is probably too much in most off-road situations.:evil
    #22
  3. 2trally

    2trally Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Oddometer:
    62
    Location:
    Arizona
    Has anybody done this with a hypermotard? Its 1/2 the way there already.


    edit: I didn't know Ducati started making a liquid cooled hypermotard. 821cc, 110 hp, 5.9" rear travel, 6.7" front travel. It would be a way better candidate than the 848.
    #23
  4. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Oddometer:
    5,824
    Location:
    Turning expensive metal into scrap
    My FZ1 has 145HP:evil And yes, it's WAY too much in the dirt, street though...:deal
    #24
  5. RedRaptor22

    RedRaptor22 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Oddometer:
    161
    Location:
    Louisiana
    And a lot has to do with how and where the power is delivered as well, the suzuki Sv twins are fairly linear with lots of midrange, vs the peaky power band of an inline and even some of the other twins such as most ducati twins and even suzuki's own TLR twin was fairly peaky in comparison, it's all a compromise, generally for more dirt and gravel I would go for something with more midrange as opposed to bottom or top end power.
    #25
  6. 2trally

    2trally Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Oddometer:
    62
    Location:
    Arizona
    Yup midrange is good. I suppose its kind of ironic, but the engine currently in my Buell makes good power for dirt. Good traction on hardpack even with pirelli scorpion syncs.

    Take the engine swap out of this build and it becomes a lot easier. I wanted to use a different engine just because modifying the bike with the stock engine presents problems of its own, and I've never been a fan of the Harley twin. It's just too damn car-like. 6500 rpm redline and low maintenance bore me for some stupid reason.

    Anyway, back to the problems of using the stock engine. Most of them stem from the swingarm. I want to run chain drive so I would have to add adjusters. As previously mentioned, cast aluminum is not easy to weld. There is always the bond and rivet approach but I doubt I could pull that off. And even if I could I don't know if I could trust it. Needless to say, I don't have lotus' engineering abilities.

    So using the stock swingarm is out and that requires me to find a place for the oil tank on top of trying to find/make a swingarm that will work.

    I like the exhaust placement on the stock bike, but if I put long travel suspension on and want to keep the seat height down I need to gain a lot of clearance. There is about 5 inches from the bottom of the exhaust to the bottom of the oil filter so I could gain upwards of 4.5" of clearance if I reroute the exhaust. That means modifying the headers and creating a whole new exhaust system aft of the headers. I might be able to steal some pipes off of an XR1200, but it would still take a decent amount of fabrication.

    Since it's not just a simple suspension swap I figured I might as well get the most for my work and swap in an engine I would love. But I think that I underestimated the work to swap a new engine in. I'm not saying the idea is trashed but I have to think about it some more.

    Sorry if I sound like one of those people that's always talking about doing things and never actually does anything. I always intended this thread to be a sounding board. I wanted to attempt to predict the biggest problems I'd likely have and I think that goal has been met. I read the SAR rules and I think this was the right place to put this, if it wasn't, sorry, I'm still a noob.
    #26
  7. BikePilot

    BikePilot Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Oddometer:
    11,251
    Location:
    Tampa
    Seems possible, but imo not worth doing. I think it'd be more work than building a custom frame around the 848. One problem with using street bikes off road is most folks still end up with horrendous ergonomics. Last thing you want in the dirt is a big street tank (or filter cover) stretching a long way between the seat and the bars.

    A big tank on a ktm superenduro would be hard to beat, even after a lot of work. If you really want lighter than the KTM maybe find an old Highland 950.

    I'm not sure the Uly frame will ever be very good off road. Definitely needs major geometry changes, even then the egronomics will be screwy. Also, the short wheelbase isn't your friend off road neither is the width. I like my uly a lot, but it's really surprisingly bad off road (my bandit 1250 was better).

    A KTM690 is mighty good off road and not too bad on-road if you want really light. If you need more power, building a forced-induction, 100+hp 690 would have to be easier than making a uly chassis work off road. You could also try swapping in a compact twin like a pimped out Ninja 650 motor into an XR650R or big KTM single chassis.
    #27
  8. 2trally

    2trally Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Oddometer:
    62
    Location:
    Arizona
    I went over the geometry changes I would have to make. But ya I never have been sure about ergonomics. With the amount of work that had to be done I know I could make them better, but there isn't much I could do about the seat. Tilting the frame back and making my own subrame would move it forward a little, but not enough to make it perfect.

    A turboed KTM 690 would be crazy. I wonder how difficult it would be to make it reliable. At the least it would need lower compression and an improved cooling system. I think an oil cooler would be necessary if I didn't want to change the oil every 500 miles. If I wasn't worried about making 20+ hp I could probably leave the head alone. Hopefully the stock bottom end could take an extra 10, 15 hp without grenading. If I could get low enough compression with a thicker head gasket I might not even have to change the piston.

    Damnit quit giving me ideas, I have too many already.:D
    #28
  9. 2trally

    2trally Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2012
    Oddometer:
    62
    Location:
    Arizona
    Whew, I can get the turbo idea outa my head. I want to be able to do water crossing, and water on a hot turbo = useless turbo with some warped turbines. I'm not 100% sure about that but for turbo cars and trucks they recommend letting the car idle for a minute before you shut the engine off to keep the turbines from cooling too quickly. Even in a setup were the turbo doesn't get very hot (relative to something like an rx7) dunking the thing in water would cool it more quickly than a rapid shutoff from high rpm and would definitely cause damage. And besides all that, the 690 makes good enough power already. If I got one I would be more concerned about making the electrical system reliable and getting some extra range.
    #29
  10. Hughlysses

    Hughlysses Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Oddometer:
    3,445
    Location:
    Summerville, SC
    Water on the hot turbo housing isn't likely to affect the blades, but I can imagine you'd run a good risk of cracking the thing. The reason for letting a turbo idle for a while before shutting down is to give it a chance to cool down, so the oil doesn't "coke" around the bearing. Shutting down a turbo after a hard run with no cool-down period is just like dumping your oil in a hot frying pan and walking away from it. If you do this often enough, the coked oil eventually clogs up the return line and packs around the bearing so that fresh oil can't run through the turbo bearing, resulting in failure. Most recent turbos have a water jacket around the center section to provide convection cooling after you shut the engine down to help prevent coking.
    #30
  11. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Oddometer:
    5,824
    Location:
    Turning expensive metal into scrap
    Yeah I have to agree that I think you are probably underestimating the amount of work it is just to put suspension on let alone a motor change.

    If you like the idea of rolling your own, and it sounds like you do, I would give serious consideration to duplicating one of the established builds like the dirt ninja or a common bike like the sv650. They are stupid cheap, I just bought an 07 ninja 650 for $560 at a auction.

    Try it out on something like that. You'll gain serious experience in what it takes to make one work and if you screw it up it's not that big of a loss. Taking your normal street bike thats worth book value and chopping it up would be a serious mistake especially if you haven't done it before.

    Believe me I think it's ambitious and I would never tell someone else it's not possible because thats the challenge. But I've also made a lot of mistakes on my builds fortunately I always bought wrecked bikes for cheap so I could always recoup back a bunch of money by parting it out, but I think you would screw up the value of your bike badly.

    Go get a crashed bike for cheap start stockpiling parts for the suspension and get after it, it's a lot of fun and then next year you can tackle your buell
    #31
  12. Cobain

    Cobain night owl

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Oddometer:
    132
    Location:
    Spokane
    Dude i Fing love your bike! Way too sick man. Link for the build?
    #32
  13. Cobain

    Cobain night owl

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Oddometer:
    132
    Location:
    Spokane
    Nevermind i see it
    #33