9 month old shorai needs a charge. Help...

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by Deepc, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. Deepc

    Deepc Been here awhile

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    05.5 950A won't start. I just installed the $$$ Shorai 9 months ago. No problems until now. I have a shcumacher charger. Any charging tips?
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  2. DuctTape

    DuctTape Been here awhile

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  3. Deepc

    Deepc Been here awhile

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    Yes. If I could afford the shorai charger I would use it, but right now I'm stuck with a schumacher ship/shore speed charger. My choices are 2A trickle, 10A medium, and 15A Deep. Also, have a option for standard, agm, or gel cell.
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  4. DuctTape

    DuctTape Been here awhile

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    If it was my battery I'd contact Shorai about using that charger,
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  5. Deepc

    Deepc Been here awhile

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    I hear you about contacting the manufacturer but I'm kind of in a "Spot." I know some guys have had some luck charging these things on a standard charger. I've set it to a 2A trickle on the standard setting. This battery had been great until yesterday.I have heated grips on the switched circuit so that shouldn't be a problem.
    #5
  6. PhiSig1071

    PhiSig1071 What's ******width?

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    If your bikes charging system can charge the battery, then any standard charger should be able too as well. However, The Shorai specific charger is better, because it's supposed to charge the battery cells evenly. One big thing I did notice about the Shorai I put in my KTM, it says if it's low on a charge, that you should charge it first, before trying to start a bike, apparently you can damage the battery if you try to start it with a dead battery.

    I have a Shorai charger, if you were closer I'd let you barrow it. Or you can send me the battery, and I'll hook it up and send it back when it's done.
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  7. Dogtown

    Dogtown Been here awhile

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    I'm on my 2nd.....I keep mine on a trickle charger/battery tender. Lots of guys that I respect on here love this batt but its the last one i will own. Just dont trust um 100%. Originally Shorai said the standard batt tender was fine but some guys on here say NO and if your running your big ktm with accesories the battery will not full charge while riding.

    No Bueno!

    Cheers and good luck
    #7
  8. FakeName

    FakeName Wile E Coyote SuperGenius

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    I have successfully used a standard auto charger on mine.

    I wouldn't do it all the time, but sometimes, a guy leaves the grips on .:gerg
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  9. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    which Shorai do you have installed in 950?

    the short answer is yes you can charge Shorai batteries with most any automotive charger without conditioning mode. which will go up to about 15.5v, would not be good for LiFePO4 batteries.

    LiFePO4 batteries for motorcycle are fully charged at 14.6v .. your Schumacher charger should charge at peak 14.3v or so... so long as your auto charger stays below 14.6v, you should be fine. bulk part of charge is not critical .. As your LiFePO4 battery charges up, current will naturally slow down. using a dumb charger without float mode requires you monitor charge levels to prevent overcharge.

    in other words, measure your auto charger to make sure peak voltage doesn't exceed 14.6v and don't leave your charger attached longer than overnight.

    it's my experience some Shorai have internal BMS, some don't. all have external balance ports ... Shorai batteries should be balance charged from time to time with a charger with balance leads.

    see my LiFePO4 battery testing thread for LOTS more details .. link in sig..

    Shorai LFX 21 being balanced charged with Powerlab 8 (note balance cables in center)
    [​IMG]
    #9
  10. DuctTape

    DuctTape Been here awhile

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    I run the Shorai in both my Ducati and Aprilia but not my 990 that ends up a long way from home and tow trucks, LOL.
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  11. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    that depends on which battery tender ... what's critical is does battery tender terminate current after full charge is reached?

    some battery tender will deliver a slow charge for long as charger is plugged in.

    only use exact model and brand tender mfg recommends.

    my recommendations is not to use a tender, unless your parasitic drain is higher than normal.

    some tenders charge so slow, it could take several days to reach full charge. use a normal dumb automotive charger to charge your LiFePO4 batteries. then monitor voltage (14.6v max) and don't allow charger to remain on battery past overnight.

    most LiFePO4 cell mfg (not battery mfg) will recommend a .5C to 1C charge rate during bulk stage. example: Shorai LFX 21 actual = 6 amp hour ... so 3A - 6A charge rate is preferred during bulk stage of charge. some battery tenders charge at 150-500 milliamps
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  12. sstewart

    sstewart Long timer

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    I ruined mine by trying to start when weak.
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  13. SE Steve

    SE Steve Super Noob

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    I bought one back in march 2012 and it died in November. I'm not impressed. I always felt it was going to leave me stranded. Riddle me this if it needs a special charger to charge completely how is the bike's electrical system going to charge it? :norton
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  14. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    Li-ion batteries in general go from full power to NO power. the instant battery output goes down... STOP all drain! or risk over discharging/ruining your battery.

    normal 12v charging system charges at 13.8 to 14.2v ... LiFePO4 fully charged at 14.6v ... so any working 12v charging system will charge just fine. so no special charging system are needed for LiFePO4 motorcycle batteries.

    balancing is needed only on occasional basis to make sure all internal cells remain in balance. Earth-X has internal BMS that keeps cells balanced.

    one of the most common problem with LiFePO4 batteries is mfg spec only enough AH for warm weather, with bike in perfect tune. actual amp hour are tiny with little to no reserve should engine need extra cranking and/or use of heated gear combined with short rides and cold weather.
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  15. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    good call ... only LiFePO4 batteries I can recommend for 990 adventure are Shorai LFX36 and Earth-X ETX36. there's a huge difference between bikes that only make short trips from home base vs a bike that get ridden in the middle of no where, sometimes camping out in cold weather.

    [​IMG]
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  16. Spark01

    Spark01 V-Twin

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  17. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    Joel W is using an LFX 18 in those tests ... which is way too small for bikes tested with.

    Joel's tests a correctly sized AGM battery vs an LiFePO4 battery that's several sizes too small. most LiFePO4 mfg grossly over rates their batteries and spec battery for summer use with a perfectly tuned bike.

    for example Shorai LFX 21 tests out at about 6 amp hours actual with a 1C discharge. mfg will do 10 hour, 120 hour, etc discharge rates... which will produce higher ratings.

    for LOTS details how above was arrived at... visit LiFePO4 testing thread ... link in sig
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  18. Spark01

    Spark01 V-Twin

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    uhm..... just look on the shoria site.
    and look what they say what type to be used on the ktm: LFX18
    so what you are saying is shoria recommends the wrong size battery for our type of bike....
    #18
  19. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    most LiFePO4 mfg will typically recommend a battery for warm weather with a bike in perfect tune.

    for instance if someone is replacing a battery for an 990 Adventure and planning on riding that bike in the middle of no where, including lots of cold weather camping.

    requirements are going to be different than someone riding mostly in warm weather from home base.

    all above info are posted multiple times .. visit my LiFePO4 testing for LOTS of detailed info why... link in sig
    #19
  20. charlie264

    charlie264 Long timer

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    I’ve never seen a lithium battery that needs a balance charger and both terminal leads connect to charge!!!

    If you don’t have a balance charger wouldn’t connecting it parallel to another, say car battery for an hour be a better idea.
    #20