950 resurrection, aka I have a lot of ongoing questions??

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by COXR650L, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. COXR650L

    COXR650L Long timer

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    I wanted to use this thread to document the overhaul of my 2004 950, and have a place to ask questions throughout the rebuild. I have done a lot of engine work before on thumpers/cars but never on an LC8 so I wanted to use this thread to document what Im doing, and most importantly, as a running thread to post questions before I royally screw something up:lol3:evil

    The goal is to completely go through the bike, within reason (not spending a ton of $) and make it a good reliable bike for many more miles to come.


    A little about the bike:
    I have always wanted a 950, and fortunately this summer inmate Tha Rick, sold me his 2004 for a great price. It's a high milage bike (75k+ now) and I knew it would need some work eventually. I rode it all summer and had a blast but did identify some issues so this winter the engine will be getting pulled. To make it more interesting some pictures from this summer on the 950.....

    In May on the Canyonlands ADV Ride I never thought I'd have a 950 a few weeks later....
    [​IMG]

    Around camp Tha Rick told me about this and a few weeks later I was test riding my soon to be 950...
    I was stoked to have one of my dream bikes:deal

    Throughout the summer I did several overnight trips off the bike including scouting for Westfest around Buena Vista....
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    and over the Flat Tops and around Dinosaur National Monument...

    [​IMG]

    a little mishap. Turns out riding with hard side cases requires a little more forethought when riding through rocks:eek1 Nothing like the first crash on a new bike:deal....
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And there were a lot of short day rides....
    [​IMG]



    Known issues
    After getting some miles in I feel these are the known problems...
    -Leaking oil, I believe base gasket on back cylinder
    -Oil getting into coolant. Maybe water pump, maybe head gasket????
    -Lacks power. Even with a 16CS it is almost impossible to get the front end up. PO told me it had a jet kit, but I feel it is lean and pops on decell.
    -Replump faucet ful pump. Lines are corroded.
    -New coolant hoses


    The rebuild

    I plan on pulling the engine. Do you guys think I can get away with lapping the valves? Not rebuilding the heads would save a ton of many. Is that reasonable at 75k miles???


    Here is what I am looking at ordering in the next few months.

    -Coolant Hoses. THinking about this KIT

    -Piston rings. Hopefully will reuse the pistons.

    -Engine gasket kit. I was going to use an Athena Kit like this ONE

    -Water pump. I am torn between the CJs kit vs a new updated KTM one. What do you guys think? GIven money is tight is it worth an extra $100 or so for the CJ's one??


    Updates to be checked What else am I missing????
    -Clutch Push Rod
    -Shift Drum

    Any thing else I should be considering. Input, advice etc. Thanks for the help so far......
    Ben
    #1
  2. MortimerSickle

    MortimerSickle Semi-Adventurer

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    Glad to see you got the fastest color. :ricky
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  3. Dan Diego

    Dan Diego Long timer

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    Will be watching this thread as I recently picked up the same bike, albeit a fewer miles on the ODO.

    I'm ashamed to say I watched that entire video. Sad that the tires never got off the pavement! But the photos of the following ride were encouraging.

    A couple of things I'd recommend--and I intend to do these mods as well:

    1. The CJ oil sump drain kit. $75 and it'll make oil changes that much easier.

    2. The crash bar bolt mods to enable easier access without fear of stripping the base bolts.

    Both mods are covered on ADV.

    Let's see what ya got!
    #3
  4. bikyto

    bikyto Dans le doute...gaz!

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    +1 on the coolant hoses from Samco
    CJdesigns sells them too :freaky

    We'll be here to help you along and enjoy your rebuild :ear
    #4
  5. effensteve

    effensteve Enjoying the ride

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    Keep this thread updated, just picked up mine about 6 weeks ago. Though is has about 65k less on the clock than yours. I'm always interested to see what others are working on
    #5
  6. DirtyADV

    DirtyADV Long timer

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    ARRRGH stupid computer at work, removed all I had written!!!!

    I would start with making sure its the base gaskets and not just the oil pressure sensor that is more common to leak.

    If there is leak at base gasket(s), mine was just leaking from the rear but was damage on the engine cases near the front also.

    Called the problem "Pyndon Syndrome" since he was the first I saw writing about the problem.

    But the question is how much to invest in a high mileage engine? I choose to just lift the jugs with piston in them and head attached, some sealant and new base gaskets, slapped it togehter and plan to run it until it dies!

    Will be a streetmachine with motard wheels from now on.

    And bought a brand new 990R that will be the gravel eater.

    If you go deep into the engine, splitting cases, shift drum is a weak spot on early LC8 engines.

    Small stuff like balancer shaft seal might be good to add a new if digging into the engine.

    Check cam chains for wear?

    Clutch push rod if it has the old 3 piece part still?

    /Johan
    #6
  7. COXR650L

    COXR650L Long timer

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    Thanks guys for the support!


    DirtADV.....
    Thanks for the feedback. I forgot all about updates. I am going to edit the first post with possible updates. I will start will looking at:
    -Clutch Pushrod. I may consider shift drum as well as long as they are not too much $$$

    What other engine updates should I look at to see if they have been done?


    I have already replaced the balancer shaft seal after I first got the bike.

    Thanks for the cam chain suggestion I will be adding that to the list:deal

    I have replaced the oil pressure sending unit. I am 90% sure the oil is from the base gasket. I found that post about the Pyndon Syndrome when I was trying to diagnose it. It seems to match about what mine is doing





    I cant afford a new bike for a long while so I would rather get as many RELIABLE miles as possible out of this. I really feel the bottom end is robust in most modern engines so if I address the top end I really think I could get another 75k out of it. Still runs good, just some issues that require the engine to be pulled so I may as well fix as much as I can.

    I will also be:
    -checking wheel bearing
    -swing arm bearing
    -steering stem bearing
    -electrical connectors/dialetic grease
    -true wheels


    Thanks guys keep it coming. Any idea of the condition of the heads for people that have had higher mileage engines apart?? That could be a big expenses and I am trying to get a budget figured out.
    #7
  8. MortimerSickle

    MortimerSickle Semi-Adventurer

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    I don't remember what all was discussed in this thread, but you should find it interesting, in any case. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...ight=100%2C000
    #8
  9. COXR650L

    COXR650L Long timer

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    Thanks for the link, Ill read through it. 100k's pretty good!



    One more thing I forgot to ask.....Any special tools for LC8s Ill need?

    THanks
    #9
  10. DirtyADV

    DirtyADV Long timer

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    For flywheel removal there is a grub screw and an extractor needed.

    Not sure about sizes right now but can check later if no one else can fill in.

    (Was the same bolt to pull the flywheel of the XR400 but that was smaller bolt holding it in place to no grub screw required, that was lucky =)

    If you have a local source for metric bolts that is probably cheaper then buying the OEM tools.

    For locking the engine I went with OEM for peace of mind when locking engine for undoing stuff, started with just a pointed threaded rod for locking it during valve adjustments but worried if it would break when undoing stuff during camchain replacement.

    If doing a case split some big sockets will be required.

    Is it a 14mm allen needed for flywheel bolt? Think it is and 12mm for the shock mounting bolts, might be bigger then what the average garage have.

    Im sure I am missing someting, and I have not gone as far as a split, but I am worried about the shift drum, would suck having that fail since I just plan to run it with minimal maintenance until it dies on me.

    /Johan
    #10
  11. MortimerSickle

    MortimerSickle Semi-Adventurer

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    Crank locking bolt. Some guys make them, but they don't cost much.

    There is also some kind of clutch holding tool, but I just put the transmission in gear, and set the rear brake instead.

    Flywheel puller, if you get into that.

    Edit: DirtyADV's post reminded me that I already had the engine back in the bike when I did this. I guess it would be a little hard to use the brake trick on the bench. :D
    #11
  12. DirtyADV

    DirtyADV Long timer

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    TOOO SLOOOOOOOOOW!!!

    Never used a clutch holding tool, gear or pennie between sprockets:

    Some tips on locking stuff up from me working on the XR400 engine:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Bolt for pulling flywheel can be seen here, its like a fine thread M20 or something, it the same as the LC8 needs but a grub screw i needed, M12? As said before can measure them up if needed:

    EDIT: Grubscrew is M16 with a 2 mm thread pitch and puller bolt a M20 with 1,5mm thread pitch.

    [​IMG]

    /Johan
    #12
  13. Scribe

    Scribe £Bob£

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    Looking forward to reading about your refresh. I have he same bike with 50k and its staying in my garage.
    #13
  14. VxZeroKnots

    VxZeroKnots Long timer

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    Ben,

    I have a 950 which is getting some winter loving too, we should do some big bike rides when they are both all better! :clap

    Drew
    #14
  15. COXR650L

    COXR650L Long timer

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    Hey Drew,

    Ya that would be a good time. Although if Im trying to keep up with you a small bike sound a lot more fun:lol3:lol3 Im thinking about doing a spring ride around Rabbit Valley, White Wash and TT, Monkey Butt style, you interested:deal

    Anyway back on track for the big bikes what all are you doing to your's this winter?


    I ordered a valve spring compressor last night so Im starting to move forward. I have a DR350 I need to get back together and am using the proceeds from its sale to fund the 950 rebuild. Hopefully I will get the engine pulled by the 1st and see what all I need to order.

    I was looking at parts diagrams last night and did not realize the 950 uses standard auto style bearing for the crank and rods. I was thinking it was going to be roller or ball bearing so I should probably split the case and replace those correct?. I dont know for sure but it seems roller/ball bearing on the crank and rods are more reliable????

    I am also going to replace the shift fork roller bearing and probably the shift drum as well as check specs on oil pumps etc once the cases are split. $100 for the shift drum is not too bad so might as well seeing its an update.....


    I really hope the pistons/jugs and heads are in good shape. Like most things this will cost more than I expected but if those items need replacing it will really drive up the cost:huh

    DirtyAdv thanks for the pics!

    Thanks guys
    #15
  16. MortimerSickle

    MortimerSickle Semi-Adventurer

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    If the price starts going too high, remember you can always go for Plan B.

    [​IMG]
    #16
  17. DirtyADV

    DirtyADV Long timer

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    Brand new crate engine? Or 2nd hand replacement?

    If new how big was the hole in the wallet?

    /Johan
    #17
  18. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    not new but I'm still not listening, la la .. la la .. la la .. is it over yet :D

    Oh and Munn quoted me $3750 for a freshly rebuilt motor from KTM, not new but rebuilt with all new parts; no clue if this means the latest cases (re: Pyndon's rebuild thread which is must-read if the OP hasn't read it).
    #18
  19. MortimerSickle

    MortimerSickle Semi-Adventurer

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    I got mine for an incredibly low price that probably couldn't be matched now, but I have seen them on Ebay for not much more than a couple grand.

    The trick is to find an Adventure, rather than a Super Duke. I guess they crash more SDs; Ebay has three of them right now. The $1300 one has some case damage BTW.

    If you can live with the close-ratio tranny, or want to swap gears, the SDs will work fine.

    That price doesn't sound too bad (I mean, other than being a hell of a lot of money). :D

    Four years ago, used, un-rebuilt engines were going for that, or more.
    #19
  20. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    I think Dirty may well know this :D
    #20