950 resurrection, aka I have a lot of ongoing questions??

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by COXR650L, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. COXR650L

    COXR650L Long timer

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    I am 90% sure the leak is the base gasket, but I also think the head gasket is leaking because I am getting oil into the coolant overflow bottle, so with those two issues the engine pretty much has to come out.


    Thanks for everyone's help so far. I've decided I am not going to touch the bottom end after looking at some of the higher millage engines and seeing that even in flogged bikes the bottom ends seem to be in good shape, especially given that I dont have any shifting problems.

    However, the rings probably will be about worn out so I will do new rings and clean up the heads when I replace the gaskets.



    I feel better knowing what direction Im going so I can get parts ordered and hopefully start working on the bike after Christmas:wink:
    #41
  2. COXR650L

    COXR650L Long timer

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    Progress!!!

    So I got the DR350 sold that is going to fund the 950 and I got some money buring a hole in my pocket:D

    I've decided I am not going to crack the case and just pull the top end. Bike shifts and runs good (minus the oil leaks:lol3) so I hope that is the right decision.

    I have ordered the following misc parts:
    -Front and rear wheel seals
    -Swing arm seals
    -New battery
    -New grip heaters
    -Grips


    and these engine parts:
    -Complete KTM gasket kit
    -2 Middle piston rings
    -2 oil scraper rings
    -2 Piston rings
    -Oil pump pressure piston/spring assembly

    and am going to be ordering:
    -front/rear Cam Chains
    -Cam chain sliders
    -Water pump rebuild kit
    -Radiator hose kit
    -New tubes
    -Front/rear tires
    -New faucett fuel pump

    Am I forgetting or missing anything that needs to be addressed while the engine is out? Or the bike torn apart?

    Hopefully this weekend the tear down will start:clap

    Thanks
    #42
  3. DELTATANGO

    DELTATANGO Motorcyclist and Dog Walk

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    That sounds like a winner. I have the same year and color. If you have the blisters on the tank just pop them, don't fuck ip the entire tank like I did.

    The only thing I can think of is maybe a fuel pump. It's on the outside so no big deal.

    They are great motorcycles.
    #43
  4. COXR650L

    COXR650L Long timer

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    Thanks for the suggestion. It has an aftermarket faucett style pump, but this would be a good time to replace it and use the old one as a long road trip spare.
    #44
  5. COXR650L

    COXR650L Long timer

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    OK I have started getting the bike torn down and most of the parts are here.

    This summer one of the oil line going into the oil tank was cracked. This part....
    [​IMG]

    It is the rubber hose, and its $72:eek1:eek1:eek1:eek1 I went to the auto parts store and found one that fit, but now that Im looking at it I doubt its oil resistant because it is soft and ballooned out.

    I refuse to pay almost $75 for a rubber 3/8in hose. Anyone have a good recommendation for a replacement. The biggest issues is the 90deg bend other than that a straight piece of hose will work.
    #45
  6. charlie264

    charlie264 Long timer

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    Any plant machinery or hydraulic service repair shop can make you one up with sealed metal bends or sell you a bit of tube.

    I had a pipe made up with metal end fittings, 12 quid....and they pressure tested it.
    #46
  7. Zuber

    Zuber Zoob

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    I think it will work out fine by not splitting the cases. So, now you don't have to pull the engine. It's all do-able in the frame. Pull the tanks, carbs, airbox and then clean, clean, clean. Wrap plastic sheeting around the frame above the engine to keep dust and dirt from dropping in to those spaces.

    Adds to the part list:
    Oil pressure sending unit, very common for these to leak, they are cheap. Good chance this is your leak and not a base gasket.
    #47
  8. COXR650L

    COXR650L Long timer

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    Engine is out:clap:clap

    [​IMG]

    Not too bad for my first time getting this far into the bike. I was actually surprised how easy it was once you get the body and carb/air box off. Not a whole lot left.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Next step is getting into the engine. I'm anxious to see what kind of shape its in.
    #48
  9. c00k!e

    c00k!e Adventurer

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    :thumbup: keep us posted ;)

    Now grab your self a cold one or two :sly:

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
    #49
  10. DELTATANGO

    DELTATANGO Motorcyclist and Dog Walk

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    I did this a couple of months ago/ Good luck.

    It's crazy how the side stand stays on the engine.
    #50
  11. getagripgreg

    getagripgreg Been here awhile

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    We have the same bike, here's the pile of parts I bought at 90,000 miles:
    [​IMG]

    Here's the thread covering the job:
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633576

    I would not split the cases unless there is a transmission problem. The crank bearings are an unusual design, split shells that need a precision press tool to get in and out. Steverino did his, I think, but his cases were cracked and had to come apart for welding.

    My motor is past 102,000 miles now and I am starting to get some leakage from the cylinder bases. Other than that, she still runs like a train.

    I would urge you to do a leakdown test before taking it apart any further, so that you can have a baseline for comparison. When you are done you can check it again to see how you did.

    There is considerable debate over how to best prepare the Nikasil liners for new rings. I suggest the ball hone such as this one:
    http://www.flexhoneblog.com/2012/11/the-flex-hone-for-niaskil-engine.html

    Some people swear by green scotchbrite. I use the BRM hones, as all the nikasil Cosworth DFVs in our shop are done that way, and it works for them.

    Good luck!

    Greg
    #51
  12. MortimerSickle

    MortimerSickle Semi-Adventurer

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    Maybe we should start a club. :D

    [​IMG]
    #52
  13. COXR650L

    COXR650L Long timer

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    Thanks guys. Lots of good info.

    Getagrip......
    so after the rebuild your base gaskets started leaking? Did you use any sealant or were they put on dry?

    My plan is to use sealant bc mine are already leaking and I have a feeling it will be the same problem pydon documented.
    #53
  14. GoNOW

    GoNOW Long timer

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    The LC8 motors are really bullet proof with the exception of the water pump. I would not strip the bottom end open unless you have problems.

    Athena makes good stuff. It's my first choice for gasket kits. Moose also makes good budget kits.

    Frankly, before putting new rings on the motor, run a compression test. If it's all good, check the valve shims. If they are not at minimum, then I would call the motor good and would not take the risk of putting new rings in.

    As for the base gasket, the seal is not under heavy pressure. I would apply a bead of 3-Bond 1184 on the case, let it tack up for 10 minutes before applying the gasket. 1184 is the stuff I use when assembling case bottom halves that don't have a gasket and it holds up well.

    Do perform all the TSBs on the motor including the rotor bolts. Upgrade the water pump with the new shaft, seal, impeller, and side cover. Replace the counter balancer seal along with any other external seal like the shift seal and counter shaft sprocket seal.

    I converted to a vacuum pepcock a long time ago and don't have to worry about it again.

    My R/R started to go out and overcharge the battery. I went with a kit from http://roadstercycle.com/. Might be a good idea to have one on standby.
    #54
  15. getagripgreg

    getagripgreg Been here awhile

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    I did not take apart the top end because my leakdown numbers were excellent. So the base gasket leakage is a 100,000 mile side-effect. :1drink

    If I were to take the jugs off to try and seal the leak, I would use Hondabond HT on the gaskets. It is flexible, seals large gaps, and is the only glue that stopped my LC4 Duke motor from leaking (cambox).

    Since you already paid for rings, and you have the base gasket leak... I would say go ahead and service the top end. Hone or otherwise de-glaze the cylinders, lap the valves, use modern chemistry to stop the leaks.

    As long as your valves/seats are not cupped too badly and the bores don't have terrible wear.... rings and a valve job should be a big improvement. You mentioned that you think the bike is down on power... checking the leakdown is important, but you might also have more simple problems like valve clearances, carb settings, or even simply spark plug wear. I didn't read everything so I don't know the maintenance history of your bike, and all motors need at least some care. Is your air filter fresh?

    I simply can't believe how fast my bike is with this many miles. I had a Honda Superhawk that was quicker off the bottom, but this 950 makes me happy every time I wind it out. For sure, it can't last forever, and I'd be a fool to take it to the boondocks alone, but I don't feel like it is anywhere near its end.

    Cheers,
    Greg
    #55
  16. COXR650L

    COXR650L Long timer

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    Thanks Greg thats really helpful.

    I have never checked the valves and I need to do a little carb tweaking (lean down low/popping on decell) so that could be a big contributor to the lower power. Everything else is new and fresh. I have never ridden another 950 so the low on power statement is based mostly on the difficulty the bike has in getting the front wheel up (I know....real world dyno), and from what people tell me it should come up with no problems. It really seems to run great other wise, I've had it to 100+ MPH and it seems to pull hard at highway speeds, so it could just be "me".


    So the plan of attack is:

    -Check valves/lap
    -New rings
    -New Oil Pump Pressure valve/spring
    -New Cam Chains/Guides


    Going this far I dont see how it will hurt to freshen up the top end. May not need it, but its getting done now regardless:lol3:lol3

    Thanks fellas



    #56
  17. GoNOW

    GoNOW Long timer

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    The Adventure is a heavy beast compared to say a CRF450. A 16 tooth up front will help getting the frontend up, but it's still not sudden and depends on how full the tanks are, and even empty they put a lot of weight on the front end.

    In first gear, under 35, a quick handful of throttle will raise the front end. I found second requires clutch action and a lot of throttle. So it's not exactly easy.
    #57
  18. COXR650L

    COXR650L Long timer

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    I dropped to a 16 and in order to get it up in 1st I need a lot of clutch, timing and throttle. 2nd there is no way. So I am pretty sure there is some issue.

    I think a little may have something to do with this as my first "big" bike, but I feel pretty confident in my ability to get the wheel up on anything else:wink:

    [​IMG]
    #58
  19. VxZeroKnots

    VxZeroKnots Long timer

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    I think the whole "wheelie" machine stuff might be for sea level or 990's. The front wheel does not come up easy at all on mine with 34,000 miles and 16/42. I just checked my valves last night and two intakes are tight. The rest are in spec, if just, and the rear plug looks a little rich. I plan on addressing all those issues and putting in a new set of plugs but it sounds like your bike runs pretty similar to mine; 100mph easy and pulls hard and steady, but I think my carbs could use some fine tuning and a 45t in the rear for sure.
    #59
  20. COXR650L

    COXR650L Long timer

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    Thanks Drew, that helps knowing your riding style. I may look into a 45, but really like how its runs down the highway right now with the 16/42. Hopefully you're getting some riding in this winter.

    Probably a good thing its hard to wheelie, Im not sure I need to be trying to stand a 500lb bike on its rear tire and charging across some whoopers, and if it could I would:lol3 But the result would be.....:ricky......:p3rry......:fall
    #60