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Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by COXR650L, Dec 16, 2013.
Thanks Charlie thats a good idea.
My local dealer told me I could borrow their tools, not leave the shop with them of course, just let me do it there. The lc8 certification requires that they have the full tool set. Worst case if they won't let you do it, even if you paid full price for the new shells I can't imagine the dealer labor to remove and install would be that much. Just a suggestion rather than messing up your cover.
I don't think you can tap these two part shells in using a socket. You need the part of the tool that holds them together as you press them in.
Just out curiosity did you track your valve clearances and shims before you took it all apart? It'd be nice to know a relative higher milage baseline to compare mine to.
If not it's all good. Keep up the awesome thread, I hope to be following in your footsteps in few years. (20k/yr on an LC8 would be pretty a pretty good couple of years )
Sorry Drew, someone else asked for that too and I forgot.....
Ill get some pictures/specs of the crank and valves tomorrow.
So bad news....
The main bearing are toast
Hopefully the dealer can help me with pressing them in and out, but Im not holding my breath.
Anyone know what this is to? It was on the work bench when and I have no idea where it belongs?
Well, crap. I guess I'll take back that stuff I said about just adjusting the valves and cleaning the carbs and riding it until it dies. Good luck with the rebuild, I'm very interested to see what's required to get this engine back to 100%. The more miles I get on my bike, the less interested I am in anything else that's out there.
It belongs to the shift drum, it sits on a spring in hole on the end of the drum and contacts with the gear position sensor.
Tricky little buggers, can disappear fast.
Good news, they have worn lovely. I'd be happy I split the case, crank fine? If the dealer wont help you out, ask auto gearbox shop......
LOL thats true they did wear decent The crank seems fine, I dont really trust the micrometer I have (slide style) because it keeps giving me a measurement just over 50mm, and I dont see the crank getting bigger:huh I am getting a dial style micrometer and will measure again, but Im guessing it will be in the top range for the red bearings, just under 50mm.
The rod bearing looked nice though Ill get a plastiguage measurement later today.
The valve springs are well over the 38 and 41mm limits. Will theses valves be ok to lapp back in?
Thanks for the help, thats it!
Check the valves and valve guides for wear, look at the valve seats in the head and the hardened area around the the valve.
The valve seats may not be impacted. Width of sealing seat: intake
max. 1.8 mm; outlet max. 2.0 mm. Reseat the valves if necessary.
Check the valve disk for wear and runout. The valve disk runout should
not exceed 0.03 mm. The valve seat may not be impacted. The sealing
area should be in the middle of the valve seat. The valve shaft is hardchrome-plated. Wear usually occurs at the valve guide.
Only lap the valves if needed, how I check, again this is me. Put the valve in give it a few spins so its seated, I then pour a little petrol or paraffin into the head and look for it passing the valves, if it drains away then a bit of fine lapping compound and work that sucker until no leaks. Don't mix the valves up if your going to keep um.
Its not like the old engine days of having to grind/seat valves in.
The cases have been dropped off at the dealer and they are going to pull the old mains and press in the new ones. For $50 a lot better then paying for the two special tools.
I looked at the other bearings and saw two potential issues:
1-The right side balancer shaft bearing inner race is loose laterally. It does not seem correct, but I cannot see why it would be that loose, action is smooth otherwise. I would just replace it but its $68!!!! for one bearing! Has anyone seen this bearing to verify if there should be lateral play on the inner race?
2-The right side shift drum roller bearing is very notchy, as opposed to the other shift drum bearing which is very smooth.
Replace both bearings?
I also plan on replacing the shift fork bushings and the updated locking lever has already been ordered. Is there anything else I should do while I'm in there??
Ben, I would definitely replace the shift drum with the updated part. I don't know what the failure rate is, but you would be kicking yourself if it cracks and you have to tear it all down again. I know it's not cheap, but I'm considering tearing my '04 down just to replace the drum.
What is cheap, is the updated gearbox oiling tube, just 1 dollar! P/N 60030065100. The new part has o-rings, which should eliminate some leakage and keep oil pressure up, which will help quiet the cam chain tensioners. If you look through the 2004 parts catalog, you will also find there are updated exhaust valves, cylinder head studs, and more. It's hard to know where to stop.
Hey I didn't know you had a 950 too....When you coming back to GJ? Me and you are in the same boat, I really hope I can move back at some point.
Thanks for the heads up on the oil tube. 1 dollar, my kind of KTM part
I knew the shift drum was an update and I considered changing it but I guess my problem is Im on a budget and the list of stuff I could/"should" replace is never ending: rods, pistons, cylinders, valves, oil pumps, etc, etc, etc. Any of which could fail, but any engine part, new or used, could fail. I would bet you there is some mention of the new 1190 engine with problems already. Granted the drum could fail, but I dont know if it's worth $120 for an updated shift drum. Hell its made it 75k+ already:huh I wonder what the actual failure rate of the shift drum is?? 1-10, 1-100, 1-1000?
If it does break at some point, it is not generally catastrophic correct? Worst case you split the engine and replace?
I was reading a post in the HOW and it sounds like the right balancer shaft bearing should have some play. The inner race actually just drops in and is held on by a retaining clip on the back side. What do you guys think?
To help you avoid cutting neccesary costs as the money tap pours from your opened cases... I'd like to offer up to any other adv members an opportunity to pledge a couple bucks to help COXR650L out for tackling this project and entertaining us with his feedback. I'll go first and if he set's up a PayPal account I'll throw in the first 20 bucks.
I'm not trying to insult the OP or anyone else here. I'm merely identifying with his situation and want to offer a little adv engenuity.
I know at this juncture any little bit helps take the sting out of the upcoming surprises ahead.
COXR650L I'll PM you..
I PM'd you back.
Thank you so much for the offer I am really touched. That is why I am always amazed by ADVrider. The sense of community and support here is unbelievable for being an internet forum. I truly think if someone was in dire straights and asked for help on ADV, irregarless of what it was for, there would be inmates willing to go to astonishing length to help them out.
For me, and even if the bike leaves me stranded from something I skimped on, I would never feel right about accepting money from people for a bike rebuild. Its a hobby and riding is something I love to do, but its not something I need to do (well maybe I do, actually). Im sure that just like a lot of people, money is tight, but Im lucky that I am able to fix the bike up at all. It could be worse and still dumping oil down the side of the engine and into the coolant reservoir:huh I will have to cut some corners and it will not be perfect, but if I had the money to make it perfect I'd just buy a new bike.
Thanks again for the offer to help, I am very grateful for the support, like I said if your in Colorado the beers are on me.
I need to order the last batch of parts today. Any info if the right side balancer shaft roller bearing should have lateral play in the inner race?
1 - they updated that bearing. The inner race caused me to have a mild heart attack once when changing the cam chains... it dropped into the case!
I could be wrong but the new bearing is a one piece.
Be sure to specify the 950 bearing if buying from KTM, the balancer shafts in the 990's are different and take a different bearing.
2 - That I have split cases 4 times now (3 different engines)and every time I've found that shift drum bearing to be notchy.
Both bearings I've replaced at the local bearing shop, they are standard sized bearings. I just take out the dust seals before they go in though.
Thanks again for the info....
I'll just skip ordering each bearing from KTM and get one from a bearing supplier when I get the cases back. Really seems odd to have that much play in the race, but I guess when the balancer shaft nut tightened down it would suck in just fine.
I don't post much now due to time but I got a PM about this so will chip in. I hate seeing people being mis-informed or led down a garden path so hopefully this straightens things out re: balancer bearings / assembly.
Re: the right side balancer bearing. This has never never been updated, it's been the same bearing since 2003. It is a cylindrical roller bearing with a split inner race and if you look closely at the make-up of the assembly, when you tighten the nut on the end of the balancer shaft, everything is pulled up tight and then the end float (lateral play) is minimised / removed. It's how it's meant to be. When it's disassembled, sure it will feel like there is a lot of play, because the inner race is simply floating / not complete without the second ring part and clamping of the assembly! From experience, the right side bearing will not need to be replaced, they are a cylindrical roller bearing and way over-rated for what they do. Unless it is clearly damaged but I doubt it.
The left bearing is a different story. The earlier models (like yours) had a ball bearing which is prone to failure. This was replaced with a cylindrical roller bearing on 05.5 models and newer HOWEVER, you CANNOT simply order and retro-fit that bearing, the cases are different and so is the balance shaft. So, you've got what you've got so you need to replace the ball bearing (left side bearing) with a new one. They are weak and simply removing the balance shaft puts inherent force through the bearing laterally and can cause damage. Steverino rebuilt an engine once without replacing this and two weeks later, this bearing let go,....change it!
That is all. Hope this is clear / helps.
Thanks!!! that was just the info I needed I really appreciate you helping out!! I will be replacing the LEFT bearing. Ill pull it and get one from a bearing shop.