950 Super Enduro vs. 690 Enduro R

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Yellow Pig, Apr 13, 2013.

  1. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    or Yellow Pig downsizes from a Big Pig to a Little Pig.

    I recently sold this:
    [​IMG]

    to get this:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I've only gotten 50-60 miles in on the 690, but so far I'm very pleased. Plenty of power, very agile and much lighter than the SE.

    The 690 got up to 100 mph w/ no issues and seems like it will be just fine on the highway, once the seat is fixed. There are a few vibes in the handlebars and footpegs, but I suspect they will diminish once the bike breaks in.

    The power delivery is deceptive, you don't get the torque blast you get from the 950 engine. It's a much more linear delivery, much like an electric engine.

    For my kind of riding I think the 690 will fit the bill just fine. If i was going to do some long range travel all loaded up w/ lots of highway the SE would be my first choice, but for daylong off road trips with a focus on the off road the 690 will be much better.


    Here is what my typical ride on the SE was like:
    Colorado Fall Colors Off-Road Loop


    As I get more mile on the 690 under my belt I'll add to the tread.

    So far the 690 seems like a Mini Super Enduro to me. All the power and fun without any of the bloat! :lol3
    #1
  2. zxrider11

    zxrider11 Been here awhile

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    Nice bike, I look forward to your future ride reports.
    #2
  3. Assfault

    Assfault Exposed Member

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    So thats what a 690 looks like new. Congrats on the new ride.
    I just installed the RR EVO2 tank kit and am approaching 20K mileage.
    You have alot of miles to look forward to. These things are alot of fun.
    #3
  4. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    Lets see:

    Super Enduro: 420 lbs / 97 hp = 4.32 lbs/hp

    Mini Enduro: 313/65 = 4.81 lbs/hp

    Close!
    #4
  5. everetto

    everetto Been here awhile

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    Congrats! 100? So you are not doing any kind of break-in limiting the rpm type of thing?
    #5
  6. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    I'm doing a proper break in. :wink:

    It takes load, pressure & some heat cycling to properly seat the rings in the piston and you only have a limited number of miles to do so. I don't believe it's good to baby the engine. I follow a modified Moto Tune Breakin Procedure.

    I've seen both the Polaris Sled factory and the BMW car factory take new vehicles off the line fill them w/ oil, put them on the dyno and redline them up and down through the gearbox without any warm up.

    The 690 manual says stay under 6000 for breakin and 7800 for the rest, thats not too bad anyway compared to a Ninja I once had that said don't go over 5000 rpm out of a 12,000 rpm range. You could barely get into the powerband. That was excruciating and before my ride it like you stole it breaking mode. :lol3

    I'll do one more break in ride on the 690, the dump the oil and filters. I'll eventually check the valves at the 600 mile mark as per the manual.
    #6
  7. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    Did a 160 mile loop today.

    Love the bike, but need slightly taller handlebars since I can't get comfortable standing up off-road (I'm 5'10"). I also found out that the rear brake lever really is made of butter:

    [​IMG]

    I barely clipped a rock and this is what happened, good thing the RR pedal is already on order.


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    I played w/ the ignition map settings to see if I could tell a difference. There is a difference, but it's very subtle. The soft setting seems like it would be good in mud, but too weak anywhere else. The full power setting is a bit too snatchy and abrupt. It would work wonders on the road with a supermoto set-up. The standard setting is perfect for dirt, just the right balance of smoothness and power.

    The suspension is good for the road, but abysmal in the dirt. It's way too harsh on rock, washboard and other sharp angle obstacles. This is gonna take some major re-valving to get right.

    On the road I was wishing for a mini fairing or windscreen to get the brunt of the air off my chest.

    Other than that the bike is a hoot to ride. The weight difference between the SE & the 690 means I can maintain a much higher corner speed and when I screw-up I can bleed speed off very quickly. The SE just had to much mass/inertia and forces you to slow down quite a bit in the corners.

    So far I have averaged 47 mpg over about 250 miles.
    #7
  8. everetto

    everetto Been here awhile

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    Can you expand on this a bit - when you say re-valving does that mean you think the spring (rate) is acceptable, and then regarding the valving do you mean the compression or rebound, or both? Is the damping not enough to contain the spring, or is the damping too much (even in full soft)? Thanks for any info.
    #8
  9. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    The spring rate and the valving are two different things. The springs just holds the weight of the rider and the bike up statically (Static Sag). Thus the spring rate has to be matched to the full weight of the rider and his gear. I'm 210lbs in my B-day suit and probably more like 230 w/ all my gear, tools, and water and will require X spring rate. A 175lb rider will require a totally different spring rate.

    If your suspension is too soft you cant just get a stiffer spring. This will not work. The spring has to be set to your static weight. It's the valving that has to be adjusted.

    The Valving affects how fast the oil in the forks flows through the valve and around the shims. This dictates the speed at which the suspension compresses and extends.

    The trick to nice and plush suspension in my opinion is to have a setup that allows plenty of oil to flow on sharp angels, this is your high speed compression (rocks, roots, washboard, small ledges), but is still able to deal with the forces of slow speed compression ( jumps, g-out, whoops).

    For example here is an OEM valve (not sure what bike its from) and the famous Racetech Gold valve side by side. You can see how the Gold valve will flow much more oil than the OEM one.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]


    I am by no means a suspension expert, but know what I like. I have had all my KTMs worked on by either Slavens or Superplush and have been very happy w/ the results.

    One factor that might be affecting the 690 is the extreme rigidity of the trellis frame. On a 530 for example there is a certain amount of flex that is incorporated into the frame.
    #9
  10. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    From Slaven's web site:

    Next Level Fork Re-Valve

    (We don’t recommend the standard revalve for the 690 because of the extremely harsh fork and chassis combination)

    Add $60 to the re-valve price to include oil seals & labor to change the seals. (Only high quality NOK or SKF forks seals are used. We’ve tested all of the cheaper brands and they don’t compare.)


    The 690E & R WP fork is brutally harsh and stiff on the small hits (rocks, roots, washboard, etc.). This creates a very nervous front end and makes it a handful to ride in any conditions that are rougher than fresh pavement. For many riders a spring rate change is necessary.


    Re-valve includes:
    * Valving shims
    * Cartridge fork fluid
    * Next Level High Flow Passive Valve Pistons
    * Hand machining to valving parts
    * Clean and inspect all parts
    * Labor
    * 60 day warranty
    * Unlimited phone or email support
    * Re-work if needed
    Does not include springs, seals, bushings, or other worn/damaged parts.
    Shock Sox or Seal Savers are recommended for all models, applications, and conditions.


    Shock Re-Valve


    The 690E & R WP shock suffers from the same problems as the front-end, extremely harsh valving that makes it kick and track poorly. Once these issues are corrected, the shock will be able to handle a wide variety of terrain and loads. It’s recommend that this be paired with the fork re-valve/re-spring to achieve proper balance and handling performance both on and off road.
    Standard Re-valve includes:

    • Valving parts
    • Nitrogen
    • Shock fluid
    • Labor
    • Bleed fluid with WP/KTM Factory vacuum/pressure bleeding machine
    • 60 day warranty
    • Re-work if needed
    • Unlimited phone or email support
    Does not include springs, seals, or bushings.
    #10
  11. everetto

    everetto Been here awhile

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    Thanks, I know this (I road race a very advanced car), which is why my questions were trying to get at whether you thought the spring, or the damping, or both needed help.
    #11
  12. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    In my case probably both. I have not checked to see what spring rate is on there now. I have heard that on the 690s typically the front springs are too strong and the rear too soft for the average rider.

    The valving need lots of help for sure, even if the springs are not changed.
    #12
  13. leanin

    leanin Been here awhile

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    Have you fiddled with the clickers? They actually do something on the 2013 690. I hated the harsh suspension until backing off the compression 5 clicks front and rear. It made a huge difference and I'm now happy with the suspension. YMMV
    #13
  14. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    Yup, started off in the standard setting, then backed both ends out 5 clicks to comfort and it's still harsh. Keep in mind that I'm coming off a 530 w/ fully reworked suspension. Even my 950 had a full workup done by Superplush. So you might say that I'm spoiled....kind of like the princess and the pea story. :wink:
    #14
  15. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    On a good note I was able to straighten out the brake lever w/out snapping it in half. That is how soft the metal is.

    Did my first oil change and everything is looking good. No metal in the screens or the magnetic plug. Just what appears to be some minor gasket material.

    While I'm snowed in this week on goes the Wings exhaust w/ small insert and 15 min idle reset, plus a BRP submount w/ my trusty Scotts.

    I'm seriously tempted by the Rally Raid Evo-2 setup, but am forcing myself to realize it is too expensive and involved for what I will use the bike for. Too much nice stuff to break.

    In reality it looks like the new Lynx fairing will suit my needs better and be a bit more affordable. I have ordered the Evo 2 tanks though. They look nice and compact.

    The Evo-2 Tanks (2.64 Gal) + the OEM tank (3.4) running at 45 mpg should give a nice range of +/- 260 miles.
    #15
  16. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    I'll probably end up w/ this fairing:
    [​IMG]

    and this tank:
    [​IMG]


    The Evo-2 Rally Kit w/ a low fender looks fantastic:
    [​IMG]

    With the high fender the Evo-1 looked better and the Evo-2 a bit funny.
    #16
  17. BobDan

    BobDan Adventurer

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    I have a '08 690 and had Slavens do his magic on the suspension. Yes, I agree that the stock 690 was a little "harsh" off-road. It is much better now.

    That said, anyone that can ride a 990 up "Block and Tackle" and Mosquito Pass at night (referencing you fall trip report) may think a 690 is nimble.

    I did the TAT and Shadow of the Rockies rides (Colorado only) on my 690 last year and it works well. I think you will find that you will get better gas mileage. I got 65 MPG on some of the fast jeep road sections.
    #17
  18. palmstatecrawler

    palmstatecrawler Been here awhile

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    What kind of fairing is that? Any other pictures and price?
    #18
  19. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to asphalt!

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    Just talked to Jeff Slavens. He has officially retired from the suspension business and is no longer accepting new orders.

    He said he's booked till June, then after 40 yrs of suspension work he is done.

    Jeff said the front spring weight should be good for me, but that the back needs to be a bit heavier, and that both front and back need major re-valving.




    First 1st fairing or 2nd fairing?


    #1 Lynx by Britannia Composites
    #2 Rally Raid Evo-2 Fairing
    #19
  20. 32x20

    32x20 Been here awhile

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    Think the lynx will be better than the truck-lite/fly screen like on your SE?

    I thought the Lynx was expensive...then I looked at the RR gear. Wow.
    #20