A breakdown, a cowboy and a matchless owner. Seriously.

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by hotrdd, Jul 5, 2014.

  1. hotrdd

    hotrdd Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Oddometer:
    157
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    I couldn’t make this up. Yesterday while leaving work in downtown “cow town” Calgary my 2005 KTM 950 S stalled at a light. I tried to restart it but the only way to even get even a little life out of it was to gingerly play with the throttle. But there was no way I was going anywhere. I rolled the bike to the side of the road where there was a small cal-de-sac. Jumped off the bike and called my friend to see if he was around with his truck. Just happened that he was about three blocks away, leaving work J So I started looking for a ditch or hill that we could use the bike when a fellow watering his grass asked if he could help me. So I asked him if he knew of a good loading spot. He had a better idea. How about I use the ramps for his motorcycle J Turns out he has a very, very old 1950 something matchless that he showed me that unfortunately was damaged in the floods last year but would defiantly be restored. <?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    So there I am within 10 minutes with a truck, ramps and a new friend. Ready to load the bike up when a cowboy is wondering down the street and asks if he can help? SURE! So we line up the bike and I give the 3 count. 1… 2…. And before I could say three the bike is already in the back of the truck. So now I have a broken bike… but some cool new friends and a story to share.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    THE BIKE had been sitting in the underground parkade of my office for a few days and the battery was dead. So I threw it on the trickle charger for the day while I was at work. When I went down after work the bike fired up just fine and I drove off. It wasn’t until a dozen or so blocks later that the bike just stalled at a light. And then would start but only if I played with the throttle. I suspect either fuel or electrical and am about to go out to the shop to start doing some testing.<o:p></o:p>
    Any suggestions where to look and what to test?
    #1
  2. hotrdd

    hotrdd Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Oddometer:
    157
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    so now I'm more scared. Went out to look at the bike and while cranking it over it was doing the same thing as yesterday. It would "kind of" start and idle. But any throttle and it would stall. So I thought maybe fuel. So I added a 1/2 gallon to each side which topped the tanks up. Then cranked it again. FINALLY it started running. Then after a minute of idle I was able to grab the throttle and its running normal.

    so now what do I do? I don't need another breakdown. But how do I test if its not acting up &#55357;&#56862;
    #2
  3. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,266
    Location:
    Reno
    Fuel Pump??
    #3
  4. spafxer

    spafxer Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,870


    +1
    #4
  5. maloryII

    maloryII ey brah

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,695
    Location:
    Annapolis, MD
    Sounds like what happened when my FP died. Easy fix, just order a new one and plug and play.
    #5
  6. hotrdd

    hotrdd Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Oddometer:
    157
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    so its normal for it to just start working again?

    is it safe to ride it while I Wai for a fuel pump &#9981; or will I only get a few more miles out of it?

    would you order two fuel pumps right away? Are they really a consumable part?
    #6
  7. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,266
    Location:
    Reno
    Do a little search and read on fuel pumps. Stockers have points (like an old school distributor) which make and break the circuit to the pump. Various upgrades--all probably a lot less $ than OEM. Facet automotive/aircraft pump, Dr. Bean mod which replaces points with solid state setup and vacuum pump. For my 2 cents, OEM is out of the question. I have had great luck with the Facet--readily available, durable and cheap.
    #7
  8. zeegman

    zeegman Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    451
    Location:
    San Jose, Ca
    The fuel pump on the 950 adventure is based on contact points which close a circuit to fire a solenoid pushing a membrane in and out sucking and pushing fuel through the pump (with the help of one way valves like your heart) to your carbs.

    The current flowing in the contact points is quite large and eventually electrically "burns" the points away to the point of failure. This can happened anywhere from 0 to tens of thousands of miles but will eventually happen. I pulled my pump to inspect at 10K miles and they were already very worn down.

    Your do not have to buy another new pump and have 4 main options:
    1. buy new contacts and replace - requires a bit of soldering.
    2. Replace with a vacuum style pump which does not use points.
    3. Bypass large current in points with a FET Diode
    4. use Dr Bean optical switch kit

    #1 is moderate cost but will fail again at some point.

    Contact point can be purpased at:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fuel-Pump-Point-Switch-for-out-of-tank-pump-Honda-Kawasaki-KTM-Suzuki-Yamaha-/231272836687?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35d8ef6e4f&vxp=mtr

    #3 is the cheapest cost and requires some soldering skills but is not very tough. Should only be done with points in good condition as it still uses them.
    #4 Dr Bean kits is less work and very nicely built with great instructions.
    #2 is the most cost and work but many have had success.

    I have tried #3 and #4 and they both work great.

    Dr Bean kit info here:

    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=823347

    And other details are here:

    http://www.ktm950.info/how/Orange%20Garage/Engine/fuel_pump/fuel_pumps_index.html

    Mike Z
    #8
  9. Denalidirt

    Denalidirt High Plains Drifter

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Oddometer:
    999
    Location:
    Denali, Ak.
    I would check the wires from the fuel pump to the factory connector. Check the wires and connector. My connector on occasion would short out and the pump would stop then work then top. I just removed the connector and hard wired the existing, facet, pump.
    #9
  10. hotrdd

    hotrdd Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Oddometer:
    157
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Awesome. I'll see what I can find locally and get back to you guys.we never have the same access to stuff that you Americans do :ddog:ddog:ddog:cry
    #10
  11. Gustavo.Ramos

    Gustavo.Ramos Long timer

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,068
    Location:
    Accross the pond
    DrBean solution. Great piece of kit.

    :norton
    #11
  12. Peanuts

    Peanuts Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,976
    Location:
    Beautiful but often rainy North Yorkshire, UK
    The reason it works when you top up the tanks is gravity is helping the fuel to flow to the carbs.

    I would fit a new battery as it sounds like yours is on the way out as well.
    #12
  13. FtheRedSticker

    FtheRedSticker Adventurer

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2012
    Oddometer:
    49
    Location:
    NorCal
    Take a few minutes to check the connections with the battery. Yesterday my 950 died on me twice at a gas station. Then rode 100 mes with no issues. Today it completely showed no electrical power once I hit the starter switch. I found the positive connection loose. Cleaned up both connections, tightened them down, and problem solved. Look for the easy stuff first
    #13
  14. maloryII

    maloryII ey brah

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,695
    Location:
    Annapolis, MD
    For what it's worth, I went the vacuum fuel pump (a Weber, IIRC) route and it never worked properly -- constantly had fuel pressure issues. Maybe I just had bad luck, as many others have converted successfully -- but the stock Mitsu fuel pump is relatively inexpensive and while it'll fail eventually, my first lasted 22,000 miles. I wouldn't necessarily call it a "weak point" of the bike. It's just an expendable item that needs to be replaced every year or two.
    #14
  15. NeptuneTriton

    NeptuneTriton Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Oddometer:
    413
    Location:
    Washington State
    When troubleshooting, I always start simple and then work my way up from there.

    You said the bike had been sitting for a few days, causing the battery to die? IMHO, your battery shouldn't die in that short a period of time. You'd be surprised how many problems can be caused by a weak or dying battery, so I'd start there.

    Is is possible your bike may have been sitting longer than a few days? If so, it could be a fuel problem....you may have gotten bad gas. OR, if you filled up with fuel containing ETHANOL, after a few days of sitting, the fuel and the ethanol will separate, which could have caused your problem. Topping the bike off with fresh fuel may have alleviated this.

    So, I'd tackle your problem in this order:

    1. Replace Battery and check all connections for looseness or corrosion.
    2. Run a new tank of fuel, adding a carb cleaner like Seafoam in it.
    3. Investigate fuel pump and replace if necessary.
    #15
  16. Tim McKittrick

    Tim McKittrick Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2003
    Oddometer:
    1,919
    Location:
    Wasilla Alaska
    I had a similar failure and it was the points in the fuel pump burning out- mine came and went a few times and I was able to get the bike home under its own power.

    I installed the Dr. Bean kit and am very pleased with it- I like that it utilizes the factory pump and will avoid the over pressure/over fueling problem a few have encountered with various aftermarket pumps. Installation was easy and the directions were clear and precise.
    #16
  17. Questor

    Questor More Undestructable

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,543
    Location:
    Diamond Bar, CA.
    Yeup.
    Fuel pump becomes intermittent.
    Stock pumps are cheap. I actually carry a spare.
    Or you can replace the points on the pump yourself. Cheaper but takes a bit more work.
    One pump will last your about 20K miles (YMMV).

    Q~
    #17
  18. Lav1200

    Lav1200 Pig Pen

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,460
    Location:
    Calgary, Canada
    I'm in Calgary and have a brand-new spare 950 fuel pump. You are welcome to try it to confirm if the problem is for sure the pump.

    Andy
    #18
  19. Tim McKittrick

    Tim McKittrick Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2003
    Oddometer:
    1,919
    Location:
    Wasilla Alaska
    And once again, Advrider shows itself to be totally awesome! 100 points to Andy!
    #19
  20. hotrdd

    hotrdd Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2014
    Oddometer:
    157
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Seriously great group. Where in the world could such a breakdown actually be so positive. Though I am looking outside, and we finally have some warm weather and my bike is on the stand.<?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    So after talking to Facet several times I ended up ordering in two facet FAC-40178 fuel pumps that I am going to try. Getting a stock original pump was going to be $216 locally and I ordered in two facet pumps and other parts for $140. Once they arrive I’ll get it all pieced together and see how things run.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    I also pulled the battery and went to get a new one. But before I did I had the battery company load test my battery for a while and it turns out that there was nothing wrong with it. Not sure if that’s good news or bad news. I find if the bike sits for more than 4 or 5 days that it’s dead. So I typically keep it on the trickle charger. However this time I had it sitting in the shop, unplugged, and went camping for 5 days. When I came back it fired up fine and I rode it to work where it then again sat for two days, because I was busy partying at the Calgary Stampede, and then when I went to leave it was dead. I need to fire the bike up and see how many volts I’m getting while it is running.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    All of the fuel in the bike is good so that’s not an issue. However I also went through the process of SeaFoaming the bike three times just to get everything cleaned out. <o:p></o:p>
    #20