A question for LEOs, a little long.

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by 390beretta, Jul 15, 2014.

  1. Xaque

    Xaque Been here awhile

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    Being honest, polite, remorseful, old, having your shit together and being generally *not* a scumbag, can really grease the wheels.

    I see it this way, the two reasons to stop someone for a traffic violation are:

    1) Enforce safety laws and rules and reduce danger to other motorists
    2) Fish for better and bigger stuff

    So, if a person seems remorseful and appreciative of why their behavior was unacceptable, and they are generally a good person, they get a warning. I'd rather them pull away feeling *bad* about their behavior and want to correct it on their own, than pull away *angry* at receiving a ticket.


    So to answer the OP's question. An old dude with full gear on a quiet motorcycle who was polite and cooperative... and wasn't doing anything more than just humping along at a good clip on the highway... that's a recipe for a warning if I've ever heard one.
    #21
  2. Thanantos

    Thanantos Ride hard.

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    :deal

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
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  3. 390beretta

    390beretta Long timer

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    Thanantos, thanks for your responses. I didn't mean for this thread to become a dissertation re: personality disorders or anything even close to that. I'd just like some feedback from some actual LEO's who work in the real world. God Damn it!
    #23
  4. Thanantos

    Thanantos Ride hard.

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    Lol, no worries. I've been on this board a long time. I don't frequently out myself as LEO, but I recognized your post as sincere and genuinely seeking a real response from LEO rather than just the typical "All LEO's suck because I got a ticket for doing something illegal" posts that are so frequent on the net and especially here.

    I provided my response knowing full well what that would mean and what the typical internet response would be.

    In the end I'm happy to answer the question of one decent, sincere person and in response deal with the ire of the keyboard cowboys.
    #24
  5. Mr_Gone

    Mr_Gone Innocent culprit

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    First thing you learn in your first statistics class: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics. — Mark Twain."

    The second thing you learn in your first statistics class: anything can be proven and/or disproven with statistics.

    Edit: I have also seen the Mark Twain quote attributed to Benjamin Disreali, so I honestly don't know who said it. My first stat profession said it was Mark Twain.
    #25
  6. 390beretta

    390beretta Long timer

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    Enough BS about Stats.!! I've a Masters degree in them and I am frankly tired of hearing about them....no dis-respect to anyone meant. Again, I wanna hear from actual LEOs who work in the real world. Thanks everyone.
    #26
  7. Mr_Gone

    Mr_Gone Innocent culprit

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    Okay, no more Stats talk from me.

    I thought this is an interesting article —

    http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/4...youve-always-wanted-to-know.html#.U8ZbVrEyamQ

    It does have some statistics in there, but it talks about all the variables that go into a traffic stop, from the police side of things. I learned a couple things from it.
    #27
  8. Pugslyyy

    Pugslyyy Robinson Fuso

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    The last time I got pulled over for speeding I saw the deputy turning around (he was going to the opposite direction) and I just pulled over and waited for him.

    He asked why I had pulled over and I told him I saw him turn and figured he probably wanted to talk to me. He gave me a hard look, checked my license/registration/insurance, and sent me on my way with a warning.

    Showing a bit of respect can go a long way.

    I also have LEO friends who never write speeding tickets because they don't want to have to go to traffic court (they work drug interdiction, so as long as you don't have drugs when they stop you it's all good).
    #28
  9. 390beretta

    390beretta Long timer

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    Mr. Gone.....yes, that was an interesting article. Thanks
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  10. Ernest T

    Ernest T Been here awhile

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    From my experience. I've probably been stopped once a year the past ten years for exceeding the speed limit a little (less than 15 over). I've gotten one ticket out of those stops and that guy didn't even speak to me except for holding out his hand and saying "License and insurance please" The stop didn't last ten minutes start to end. All the rest started with something like "Where you going in such a hurry this morning?" Obviously the one guy had decided to give me the ticket before he got out of the car and the others hadn't made up their mind yet.

    Now, as to why I don't get a ticket the great majority of the time? I guess that's up to conjecture, but I've got grey hair, ride a touring bike most of the time, I'm geared up and all my documentation is in order--registration, inspection, DL etc. My DL also says I'm a Veteran so that probably helps. Then this, I'm always respectful to the officer, look at his name tag and call him by his rank and name. Hell, I know I was breaking the law and that at that point the only thing between me and a ticket is goodwill.

    For the one ticket, I went to court and asked to speak to the district attorney. He put me on deferred adjudication and probation for 90 days. No new ticket for 90 days and the original goes away. The cost was almost exactly the same as paying the ticket.
    #30
  11. 390beretta

    390beretta Long timer

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    Thanks for the reply Ernest.
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  12. SloMo228

    SloMo228 World Class Cheapass

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  13. boomhwr

    boomhwr Been here awhile

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    I'll bite on this. I will stop at 10 over and write a ticket for 15 over usually. I rarely work highways but when do it is rural areas with lots of ag and animals in the area, both wild and domestic. So I am out in the area for a reason. Farm workers on ATV's and driving tractors don't always look when pulling out from a field, neither do wayward cows, sheep or pigs.
    When stopped, just be polite. I have never stopped someone without a reason. I really hate it when I get someone for 15 over or more, and they tell me that they were doing the speed limit. If speeding, I am going to ask how fast you were going and if you knew the speed limit. The best answer I get is "maybe a bit over the speed limit". We both know you were speeding and don't be all asshatish because I caught you. My other peeves are no insurance and m/c endorsement. Your attitude will have a difference in the citation in most cases. In Idaho we have 2 speeding tickets, $90 and $150 for above or below 15 over. But there is also reckless and failure to reasonable and prudent. Those are misdemeanors. I have given either the little ticket or just a warning for speed, just over someone's attitude and maybe a little when I see the past record. As stated earlier, the goal is to promote safety and change drivers behavior. Sometimes that can only be done through their wallet.
    That being said, I have 30 minute t-stops adv bikes discussing where they have been or what they are riding and the gear they carry. Always stopped for 10- over or better. But I have met some great people from t-stops and few that asshats.
    #33
  14. Sneakypenguin

    Sneakypenguin n00b

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    Not a LEO but i've been pulled over in various cars and bikes 8-9 times and its all been random. Sometimes its just license and registration and they walk back with a ticket other times i've been +35 and didn't even get a written warning. Lately they don't even bother talking just take your info and come back with a ticket.

    Also depends on which cop pulls you over if its traffic then your SoL pretty much every time, but then my old roommate wouldn't pull anyone over cause he was patrol and didn't give a damn about traffic.
    #34
  15. PlainClothesHippy

    PlainClothesHippy Waitin' for the revolution.

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    A very interesting thread. The last time I was stopped was in my truck doing 72 in a 55 zone. The officer came up and told me that and asked if there was a reason. I looked him in the eye and told him, "I wasn't paying attention to my speed and as soon as I saw your lights I knew. I can't claim innocence." He took my license back to the cruiser for a few minutes, then returned and told me the speeding fine would be $189 (if I remember correctly) and three points on the license. Then he told me he was not writing me up for speeding, but rather for "Failure to obey a traffic device", which he told me was the speed limit sign. The fine was $109 and no points. The reason he told me I was getting a break was because I didn't give him a "bullshit reason why it's okay" to be going that fast. I figure that it didn't hurt that I hadn't been stopped for anything in the past 10 years or do.

    From the LEO responses here, it looks like I did the best thing. I've always figured they have no idea when the stop a vehicle if the driver is a psycho or not, and acting like an asshat does nothing to set them at ease.
    #35
  16. Mr_Gone

    Mr_Gone Innocent culprit

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    I've always heard from both speeders and LEOs that there's an attitude test: be polite, maybe you don't get a ticket; be an asshat, you're probably getting a ticket. Everything else is a variable you can't control.

    Well, except for not speeding. And that's just crazy!!!
    #36
  17. henshao

    henshao Bained

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    can you elaborate on this?

    this just seems so contrary to actual observation of highway behavior. are you guys primarily receiving concerns of grandmothers, or is there just that much mental dissonance, or are the community concerns really regarding asshats doing 100mph over the limit, or what?
    #37
  18. Conedodger

    Conedodger Wanna Ride

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    I've always been polite and honest when pulled over. When asked why I was pulled over, I admit that "I was going a little faster than I should have been." More than half the time, I don't get a ticket. The rest of the time, I get a reduced speed on the ticket or written for a non-moving violation.

    The last time I was clocked at 72 in a 55. I had just pulled out of a rest area on a remote stretch of road with almost no traffic. I was just running through the gears and was actually slowing back down when the officer caught me. He was traveling the other direction, but I immediately pulled over, shut off the bike and removed my helmet. (Hoping my advanced age and gray hair would help :gerg) After a brief discussion, he wrote me up for an obstructed license plate. No points, but the State still gets their revenue. Considering I was on my way home from a week of misbehaving in the mountains, I thought that was more than fair. :wink:
    #38
  19. Mr_Gone

    Mr_Gone Innocent culprit

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    Speaking as a non-LEO, I think a lot of community concerns actually are from residents who do talk to the city leaders and say, "There are too many speeders going through this school zone," or "There's a dumbass on a motorcycle who rides down my block at 140mph every morning at 7 AM — can you catch him?"

    You'd be surprised [or maybe not] what sort of phone calls come into a mayor's office, or the police chief's office, regarding behaviors witnessed by residents. City leaders really do get those calls.
    #39
  20. LittleRedToyota

    LittleRedToyota Yinzer

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    my dad was the mayor (part time gig) of the small town i grew up in for awhile. he used to take me to borough council meetings as a bit of a civics education. he also used to get calls from citizens at home.

    what it mostly taught me was that city leaders, at least in that case, tend to hear from a vocal minority of busybodies who have control issues and too much time on their hands.

    i don't know if that experience was typical or not, but there was a group of 5 to 10 people who came to pretty much every council meeting (and called him regularly) and complained about pretty much everything everyone else did.

    everyone else drove too fast. everyone else made too much noise. everyone else didn't keep their lawn manicured well enough. etc. etc.

    they basically expected the council and the police to force everyone else to live according to their wishes.

    i will note that, from the few times i have gone to pittsburgh city council meetings, it seems the same thing happens. of course, in the pittsburgh case, it doesn't help that the meetings are held on weekdays during the day...which means the only people who can typically attend them are retired or unemployed (i.e., people with too much time on their hands). in the small town case, all the borough council members had day jobs, so the meetings were in the evenings. so, theoretically, more people could show up--but they didn't.

    in any case, activists are always over represented to government relative to the general populace who don't really give a shit and just want to go about their daily lives. so, my guess is that you have the general population routinely speeding (actually, that part is not a guess...it is repeatably observable) and never contacting the government about anything while you have another small, but vocal, group complaining about speeding to the government...and the government officials they complain to mostly just want to shut them up (and not get them fired up about making them lose the next election), so they do something--or, at least, make it look like they are doing something--that will hopefully shut them up.
    #40