A racecar Noob, a Sube and the Mexican 1000 Rally

Discussion in 'Shiny Things' started by oregoncoast, Dec 3, 2012.

  1. oregoncoast

    oregoncoast Racing Like a Noob

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,546
    Location:
    Duh!
    And now, more from the Motor Man:







    And some teaser photos from our quick test run at the dunes last Saturday...you might just notice the old girl got a little lift and some new shoes :deal

    More on this later....



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And before you say it...yes I am blessed to have some great places to ride/drive within 20 minutes of my house. Wait till you see the car tearing up the local forest roads!

    Details on the lift and tires coming up...but overall, I'm very happy with the way the set-up is coming.

    #61
  2. KeithinSC

    KeithinSC Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,762
    Location:
    Sandhills of SC
    Another $200 car getting transformed to rally.:lol3

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/j-i2_g33wXQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    #62
  3. ducnut

    ducnut Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,321
    Location:
    central IL
    That's awesome! :rofl
    #63
  4. Tallbastid

    Tallbastid Let's get tropical

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,539
    Location:
    Northern VT
    As an aspriring Subaru dork, thank you for this thread.... this is awesome! :clap
    #64
  5. longtallsally

    longtallsally Yeah I'm a chick

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2006
    Oddometer:
    4,530
    Location:
    BACK IN THE STATES!!!
    By the look of one of the pics, a question comes to mind: Are you worried about suspension geometry? In other words, since you "lifted" it with just the springs/struts, are you worried about the stock controls arms and such allowing for full and correct travel? I know the lift is not huge, but since you don't have a huge amount of travel to be working with in the first place, it seems you might need to address...
    #65
  6. garandman

    garandman Wandering Minstrel

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Oddometer:
    6,419
    Location:
    Dorchester, MA / Goshen, NH
    OK, if you want to see Subaru madness, the run up Mount Washington (substantially steeper than Pike's Peak) is required viewing.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IdXJYc4CpXA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    And the famous roll by the late Colin McCrae at X Games.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QrcvG23uJew" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    #66
  7. oregoncoast

    oregoncoast Racing Like a Noob

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,546
    Location:
    Duh!
    Great Points, thanks for bringing them up. I definitely was concerned about any ill effects of adding a lift.
    I removed the rear sway bar to allow for more articulation in the rear. I did not change the springs yet, just added strut spaces. Here you can see the sway bar being pushed in which also caused a lot of stress on the endlinks.

    [​IMG]

    So with no rear sway bar and a taller stance, the car handles very different on the road. Still very good, but it is not "on rails" anymore and cannot be driven that way. There are compromises when building any sort of vehicle for a specific purpose. This is not a road rally car. But it does have to have decent highway manners because I will be driving thousands of miles on pavement. I can tell you that it still rides great on twisty roads and highway with the lift and sans sway bar. Removing the swaybar is very common on lifted 4x4's racers...now that I said it, you will notice it much more while sitting behind them in traffic or when seeing them on a trailer.


    And here are the strut spacers...which you will be hearing and seeing more of:

    [​IMG]

    The suspension appears to work through its travel arc without binding or problems. I did install camber bolts on the rear struts for a little more negative camber to compensate for the lift. I had been planning on ordering camber bolts online but while at my local Les Schwab Tire Center I asked if they had some for my car. They did.

    [​IMG]

    Online they are about $30 bucks shipped for two. I got one for $20, but the instant gratification was worth it. Once I got my head around it and actually followed the instructions, it was an easy install. I corrected the positive camber issue caused by the lift, and I will be bringing it in for a proper 4-wheel alignment first chance I get.


    Probably the most common issue that appears with lift's on Subaru's, is actually the axle angles; Too steep which causes them to fail or wear prematurely. The axle angles on our car, seem to be just fine, but I will be watching them and listening for the tell-tale clicking. :ear

    The tires themselves are slightly taller and rubbing on body parts can be an issue. However I only have a slight rub and that is because the front fender is damage and distorted. Once that fender is replaced, it won't be an issue, and a sledge hammer will solve the problem for now.

    One of the reasons we wanted the engine running and installed is so we could test both the engine and the car itself and how everything works together. I do not want a mudder or a rock crawler, just a little more ground clearance, which we have achieved. :freaky

    And this will never be a trophy truck or be able to jump or take the whoops like one. This ain't that build. :lol3

    This is our testing period and finding and addressing issues is what this is all about. I am also looking at maybe putting some wheel spacers on to widen the stance slightly. Before someone says something, yes, this might mean then changing something else to compensate (ie, axle length, fender clearance, etc.). Subarus have been lifted by a lot of people so there is lots of documentation of what works and what doesn't, and we are looking at, and will probably try, a lot of options, before deciding what we will race with.

    It should also be noted that once the cage and all strut tops are tied into the cage, things will obviously handle much differently than stock. This is also why, although I say I will be beating on the car, it is relative to the amount safety equipment and re-enforcement that is installed in the car at the time! :deal

    Something to remember is that this thread's timeline is kind of wonky as I am Tarantino'ing it by jumping back and forth in time to tell the story. So the way something on the car looks in tomorrow's post may not be the way it actually looked on the car in my driveway today. It may have been three weeks ago!



    Coming soon: I am actually working on a write up on these strut spacers, since the manufacturer is sponsoring us with a free kit for a proper evaluation!


    #67
  8. longtallsally

    longtallsally Yeah I'm a chick

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2006
    Oddometer:
    4,530
    Location:
    BACK IN THE STATES!!!
    Good stuff, and since you are (were) aware, I'd say it's a non issue. Also, I wouldn't get too riled up about no sway bar. A PSYCHO fast guy in an E30 a good number of years ago said that handling should be tuned with springs and not sway bars. In other words, you have a nice independent suspension, why take some of its functionality to keep all 4 paws down with a sway bar?
    #68
  9. jesusgatos

    jesusgatos fishing with dynamite

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,443
    Location:
    on the road
    You might like this.
    #69
  10. DOCsprocket

    DOCsprocket Sprocket

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Oddometer:
    514
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Wow. Just. Wow. Finally brought myself up to speed on the Subaru craziness. Awesome!
    #70
  11. drc42

    drc42 Rally Dreamer

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,854
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    You bastard, you are making me want to build up a car for this now. I keep looking at my Jeep Cherokee in the driveway thinking it would make a great Jeep Speed racer.
    #71
  12. straightrod

    straightrod Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,315
    Location:
    SoCal
    ^ I keep looking at XJ Cherokee's thinking the weights not bad, they could be made to go quick!
    #72
  13. ducnut

    ducnut Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,321
    Location:
    central IL
    Would they take the punishment? I've read where the suspension mounts rip free from the body, under hard use. IDK, as I'm not a Jeep expert. I'm living vicariously through others. :lol3
    #73
  14. LC Garage

    LC Garage On Any Sunday

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Oddometer:
    793
    Location:
    Columbia County
  15. jesusgatos

    jesusgatos fishing with dynamite

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,443
    Location:
    on the road
    Don't want to take this too far off-topic, but Cherokees are actually pretty expensive to build/race if you wanna go fast. Since they have not real frames to speak of, you have to do a lot of reinforcing and after building a rollcage and after adding everything else that goes into something like that, you're still stuck with a shitty platform. It's not just Cherokees, it's pretty much any/all production vehicles. Why work around the limitation of a body and chassis? It's a waste of time and money. Would be a lot better off figuring out what you want to end up with and just starting from scratch. Or buying someone elses' tube chassis buggy/racecar/whatever. Unless you are married to some romantic notion of driving a particular kind of vehicle. Nothing wrong with that.
    #75
  16. OaklandStrom

    OaklandStrom Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,618
    Location:
    East Bay
    Because by the time you've built your own vehicle, you are in an unlimited class (or that odd VW tube frame class). By starting with a "stock" bug, you are racing against other guys with no budget in Class 11. Step it up a bit, and you're in Class 5. The Jeep guys run the JeepSpeed class, and there's Class 8 for full size trucks...

    There is nothing rational or smart about amateur racing. It's time consuming, expensive and the payout is a trophy. The only reason to do it is for fun. If it's for fun, you might as well build whatever you want.
    #76
  17. jesusgatos

    jesusgatos fishing with dynamite

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,443
    Location:
    on the road
    I'm just saying it's kind of a false economy. Ask anyone racing jeepspeed. They're more expensive to build and race than some other classes, which is fine and all, but they're slower too. You can only do so much to make racing affordable. The'limited' classes are still dominated by people/teams that spend money to beat the rules. My only point was thag if you want to race on a budget, you can spend less money and go faster in a buggy. That's all.
    #77
  18. Range Motorsport

    Range Motorsport Junk collector

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,652
    Location:
    Da UP Eh!
    As someone who races a Cherokee in Rallycross events I can assure you that building a Cherokee to race can be cheap if you don't want to hit huge jumps. I have under $500 in my suspension and it can take just about anything I want to put it through. Yes it can be expensive if you buy everything brand new and get the best stuff money can buy.

    I am also building a rockcrawler inspired Cherokee and will have under $3000 into the upgrades which includes a full custom 3 link front suspension, Fox 2.5 airshox, 8 point DOM rollcage, and built axles w/35" tires on beadlocks. Building my own parts and buying used parts saves a lot of money.
    #78
  19. Jimmy the Heater

    Jimmy the Heater Tilting the Horizon

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,182
    Location:
    WA Palouse area
    Not a particular Subaru fan but racing a wagon...Oh hell yes!

    Adventure is taking inappropriate equipment to out of the way places and I think this qualifies :clap

    Following for sure.
    #79
  20. drc42

    drc42 Rally Dreamer

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,854
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    Jeesh... didn't realize mentioning Jeep would bring contoversy. Sorry, didn't want to distract from the Subaru project!

    Anyway... Paul, been curious on what you are packing for spares and supplies. Will be interesting to see. Going to be a tough tradeoff between being fully prepared vs. too much weight. Probably a very good move going with the wagon, space is going to be an issue to I bet. By the time you have 2 spare wheels, probably some control arms, a whole lotta tools, consumables (oil, coolant, filters...) and who knows what else it is going to get tight in there. That is if the plan is still to not have a chase vehicle that can carry some stuff for you.
    #80