A riding suit if money was no object..

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by bastimentos, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. Lost Rider

    Lost Rider Roadie

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    Hard to beat Rukka in overall quality and performance. BMW stuff doesn't come close to having the fit and finish of Rukka and we have a few top BMW pieces of gear currently to directly compare, not just my guess, and have had others over the years. BMW is higher quality than most more common gear found in the USA though and is good stuff, just not quite as refined as Rukka.
    Rukka has been leading the market for many years in design, using the best materials that others just started recently using / copying.
    Depends if you want a suit from a company with over 50 years experience that makes their own garments in house, or a KLIM suit that follows others designs with outsourced manufacturing in China. That's not even taking into account KLIM was just bought out by Polaris and nobody really knows what that will mean for the QC of their stuff, could be good, could be bad and only time will tell.

    I have many miles in my Rukka Armas and trust it completely to keep me safe, dry and comfortable in ANY weather, using a cool vest for very hot weather riding, and a Gerbings electric liner in very cold long distance riding. I have found the vents on the shoulders of my Armas to be more than adequate for hot weather riding in all my travels. Mesh is not an option for long distance riding IMO, I wear BMW mesh gear around town though.

    Seeing where you live, you should have access to other top quality Euro brands I'm not even too familiar with, I can only go by my own experience and Rukka is the best I've laid eyes on with the long standing reputation, ratings and awards to back it up, not to mention my own years of riding in it.
    One thing is for sure, after seeing many friends with them, I never think of the high end KLIM as being the best gear a person can buy, just baggy looking, ill fitting suits sized better for large Americans, and is looks like a copy of other designs/materials that's been very well marketed to the ADV crowd with countless sponsorships to get the KLIM name out. Very well marketed and widespread availability at many dealers in the USA is what makes it so popular around here methinks, not because it's the "best". Best is subjective as hell anyways.
    Never owned one though, just my observation and opinion so you Klim owners don't get your panties in a bunch, we all have our opinions/observations and I'm not personally attacking you. :deal


    If the OP wants to look into Rukka more, copy this code into google for a comprehensive search on ADV with all kinds of opinions and overwhelming positive testimonials.

    site:advrider.com, rukka
    #21
  2. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    not familiar with Armas ... with a three layer Gortex, looks extremely weatherproof and HOT in extreme heat.

    how does this jacket feel in 105f+ temps?
    or low as 90f?

    all multi-layer Goretex jackets start feeling uncomfortably hot at about 85f for me...
    that's when Motoport mesh Kevlar comes out ... which sucks in nasty wet weather despite Motoport's claims of being an all weather suit.
    BS who wants to put up with a soaked suit in cold/wet nasty condition? even if your insides are dry...

    which goes back to two suits for all conditions ... Mesh suits with a bulky oversuit, to me is really two suits. who wants to screw with an extra layer while putting up with all the wires for a heated suit?

    have not found a cleaner way to handle heated gear than with one piece Roadcrafter. which is a pita going into restaurants ... sure wish there was truly a One suit that does it all! ... don't think it exist yet...

    ---------
    "Armas"

    Materials:
    - Gore-Tex Pro Shell 3-layer laminate with Armacor product technology, combination of high-tech fibres aramid (Kevlar) and Cordura
    - Waterproof Gore Lockout closure in front
    - Tear and abrasion resistant GTX Super Fabric reinforcements
    - Cuffs and detachable collar of elastic 3-layer Gore-Tex fabric
    #22
  3. Lost Rider

    Lost Rider Roadie

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    Well, the hottest I rode in it was while crossing Oklahoma on the TAT in early September 2010 with 113ºF and high humidity. Record heat wave. Combined with a cool vest I survived, though over 105º or when you stop moving heat was a problem and uncomfortable no matter how you put it. Could not imagine doing that same ride with mesh, would have killed me. Many miles in 80-100 with a cool vest is no issue. Good to 80º for me without a vest and vents open while moving. When wet underneath it's actually amazing how comfortable I am up to 100, feels about as good as when the Gerbings is cranked up when it's 30º, like cheating. I also pour water down the arms when it's real hot, that with a vest makes for comfy riding for a couple hours or more depending on your speed. You do need some airflow for the water to cool you though. Usually I keep the jacket zipped all the way up when it's hot using the vest, the vents have enough airflow and the less humidity the better the cooling. I've actually been quite cold when in the desert and going up in altitude the temp drops below 80 when wet in the Rukka.

    I think people underestimate how efficient those small vents on the shoulders that act like air ducts and make air flow down your back and chest, but we are all different.
    The other factors in my experience would be I wear an XD3 helmet with excellent airflow as opposed my street helmet most of the time, I also pour water in the helmet when refilling the rest and never wear cotton, only lightweight wicking high tech fabric underneath.
    The Outlast liner for the Armas is also true to the marketing and better than any other liner I've have in BMW or Rev'it gear, flexible in various temps, good up to 75 (low humidity) and really helps keep you warm when in real cold temps. Great to use when in the mountains and the temps are fluctuating between 40º and 70º, no stopping needed.

    To me, the Rukka Armas is a true four season jacket, I've ridden all four types of weather in a matter of days plenty of times. All day, all week below freezing or above 90, rain or snow I'm good to go.
    #23
  4. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    sounds extremely uncomfortable 80-100f which is what I'll be riding at most of the summer. that's why I'll be using Motoport Mesh Kevlar most of the summer, then switch back to one piece Roadcrafter (single layer Goretex) when nasties hit. which Armas sounds like it does outstanding job with cold nasty conditions.

    could do the same with one piece Roadcrafter, that you are doing with Armas... but why? it's gets way too hot with any Gortex 80f + unless a cooling vest is used. not with two piece Roadcrafter which is multi-layer and miserably hot over 75f. wonder if I used a cooling vest I could tolerate two piece roadcrafter to 100f ...

    have you seen the comments from folks traveling with multi-layer Klim adventure suits ... gets too hot ...

    only need to dump water on core at temps 100f+ .. just like riding bicycles....
    why be hot riding 80-100f when Motoport Mesh Kevlar is comfortable without a cooling vest?
    #24
  5. gsweave

    gsweave Yinz, blinkers are on, since 05

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    #25
  6. Lost Rider

    Lost Rider Roadie

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    Because on that same ride where I rode through OK in a heat wave, I also rode though snow and days of cold rain in Idaho, Oregon, Washington, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, etc.
    I was relatively comfortable and completely dry the whole time.

    I have BMW mesh gear, it's great for local rides around town where I don't want to get wet with a vest but have tried to travel with it and it was a disaster. Mesh doesn't cool the air around you, and with too much airflow your sweat will not have time to cool you down. 100º hot air blowing on you is still 100º hot air blowing on you, with a gortex jacket with some airflow and a vest the temperature around your body is much cooler than the outside air. Personal air conditioning that you can't get if there's too much airflow. That's been my experience, we are all different ya know.
    It is extremely comfortable in 80-100 weather with a cool vest in the Armas.

    I have not seen comments on Klim riding being hot in warm weather, I'm not in the market for riding gear, I already have what works best for me. Maybe that has more to do with Klims design and not the materials?
    Assuming completely different suits that use similar materials will perform the same makes no sense at all.
    I'm talking about a versatile do it all suit and how I do it in the Armas to directly answer the OP's question, not talking about what kind of specialized gear is best in specific types of riding. Everything is a compromise, I choose to have to use a cool vest when I travel so I can stay warm and dry on the other days.
    #26
  7. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    ok.. we are on the same page... except I chose to take two suits with me. instead of having to use a cooling vest from 80-100f.
    would rather not compromise on my comfort ... which is where Klim is headed with their mesh suit with a full coverall for nasties. essentially two suits...

    which leads back to my earlier comment about starting to think it's not possible for one suit to do it all. it takes two suits...
    #27
  8. Lost Rider

    Lost Rider Roadie

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    Right on. :beer


    No compromise on my comfort either, quite the contrary, I just do what works well for me.
    #28
  9. levain

    levain STILL Jim Williams

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    I agree with most of what Finn has to say about the Armas. The only thing I'd add is that it doesn't work as well in humidity. That is the killer. I was amazed how cool I was the first time I poured water down the sleeves and down the neck on my Armas. 80ish deg., and I was a little chilly cruising down the NJ turnpike last spring. The only problem is that it isn't a commuting solution, or one for being on/off the bike a lot, which I spend a lot of time doing. Thanks to that, I pretty much put it away until Fall, then I'm reminded just how damn good Rukka gear really is come Spring. If fit is important to the OP, it really just doesn't get much better, and it's not just for the thin Euro boys either. Some of us might have a bit of a beer belly and it still fits exceptionally:lol3

    Agree also with the cold weather use in the Armas. Awesome. Mine is probably ready for a good wash and retreat as water doesn't bead up anymore, but I never get wet. Or cold. Liners are usually something I toss, preferring proper layers & heat. Not in this case, the Outlast liner really does work. I keep it in from around 55-75. Rukka armor doesn't get hard in the cold either, which is a plus in my book.

    I got to try on the Stadler Companero (This is Stadler boys, not Touratech) at the NY bike show last weekend. It's definitely Rukka build quality and its a great design, but its hardly as revolutionary as folks want to believe it is. There are two 6'ish zippers on either side of the main zipper for zipping the outer on. Add a couple zippers to any mesh or heavily vented suit on earth and a waterproof outer to zip to it, and that's the basic concept. What you're really paying for is Stadler build quality, materials, 10 year warranty and of course goretex proshell.

    I'm not sure the answer could be given online since everyone is different. Some like mesh. Some don't. some want complexity in design. Some don't. Some are fine with having one suit that excels in some areas, but not in others. they're all a compromise. The new Klim Adventure Rally suit is pretty impressive in materials. It looks to be 100% Armacor, with the exception of the huge superfabric panels. I mean, WOW! Pretty impressive. I don't know of any other suit on earth that uses Armacor as its primary fabric.
    #29
  10. StuartV

    StuartV Motorcyclist

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    Seriously?!?! Oh, wait. You said the MORE expensive stuff is not any better. Right. The Motoport Mesh Kevlar is actually LESS expensive (a LOT less) than the Rallye 3 (from the prices I found, anyway).

    The info I found on the Rallye 3 doesn't even say what the suit is actually made from. That should tell you something right there. I believe it is made from some non-Kevlar textile. On that basis, I will say that Motoport Mesh Kevlar is better (by a LONG ways) because good leather is stronger than any non-Kevlar textile. And MP mesh Kevlar is roughly 10 time stronger than good leather.

    The Rallye 3 has a liner to make it waterproof - as does the MP suit, so no advantage to either, there. But, the mesh Kevlar cools you way better, so another advantage to Motoport.

    Oh, and the MP gear is made to your measurements, so it should fit perfectly. Mine does.

    Also, my MP mesh Kevlar, with the MP Aero-tex liner in is noticeably cooler to wear than my Roadcrafter 1pc suit. The Aero-tex seems to breathe noticeably better than the Roadcrafter's Gore-tex. It is normal for me to take off my Roadcrafter and be able to feel some dampness on the inside of the suilt. I don't recall ever taking off my MP suit with Aero-tex liner in and felt dampness on the inside of the liner. Sure, I might be damp, if it's hot enough out, but I'm talking about dampness on the inside of the suit itself.

    I have worn my mesh Kevlar in ambient temps up to 113F and down to the low 40s. For shorter rides, it is comfortable with no liner down into the mid-50s. For longer rides, it needs the Aero-tex liner once it gets down to the low 60s or so. And with my Warm n Safe Gen WP heated, waterproof liner instead of the Aero-tex, I'm not sure how low I can go. So far, the coldest I've ridden in with that setup is low 40s and, for that, I turned the heated liner up to 50% to be comfortable (on a multi-hour ride).
    #30
  11. StuartV

    StuartV Motorcyclist

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    Umm, poppycock? Balderdash?

    With my MP mesh Kevlar 2 pc, waterproof heated jacket liner, and aero-tex pant liners (and no other layers), I am comfortable in all conditions, rain or shine, from at least 40F to over 110F, just be putting the liners in or taking them out and turning on the electric heat, when needed.
    #31
  12. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    totally agree about Motoport mesh Kevlar only being used twice a year crap! mine is used about 50/50 between Motorport and one piece Roadcrafter.

    40f is barely getting started on cold weather nasties... Motoport's claim about being all weather is crock of bull ... now if your definition of all season is only down to 40f .. OK .. I'll buy that.

    but some folks ride down to 20f and lower. that's when a full Goretex gear with heated suit really shines. bulk & wiring hassles starts to come into play for extreme cold...

    winner is one piece Goretex suit with single layer, followed by a single layer insulated heated jacket/pants/gloves like old style Gerbings. that way when you are off bike, insulation still works. Bulk of suit and hassles of dealing with wiring for heated gear decides user friendliness.

    for instance two piece Roadcrafter with multi-layer Goretex is not wiring friendly. a pita to setup for headed gear vs one piece roadcrafter is a no fuss setup for heated gear.

    currently have Motorport (mesh kevlar & stretch), Aerostich (1&2 piece RC), leather Harley jacket/chaps and BMW rallye suits. so it's pretty fair to say, I've got most of the bases covered .... yes, I'm a gear nut!

    just got a BMW coverall rain suit to go over Motoport to duplicate new Klim mesh suit & outer coverall, which is really two suits.... we'll see how that goes ...

    hands down Motoport Mesh Kevlar gives the most crash protection of all my suits.
    #32
  13. StuartV

    StuartV Motorcyclist

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    Don't get me wrong. I was only saying that I have only USED my MP suit in temps down to around 40F - so far. And at that, I only had my heated jacket and heated socks turned up halfway. I could speculate that with heated pants, too, my Motoport mesh suit would be good down to 20F. But, I don't like to present speculation. I gave the facts and the reader(s) can extrapolate to really cold weather performance.

    If it's cold and wet out, there are certain riding situations where I'd probably wear my Roadcrafter instead of my MP mesh. But, I'm unlikely to be riding at all if it's below 20F. So, at least for me, I can't say that I think the Roadcrafter is any more of an all-season or all-conditions suit. For me, the Roadcrafter is a suit for when I want to wear street clothes under my riding gear and my MP suit is for when I'm going riding, not commuting (i.e. don't need to have street clothes on underneath).
    #33
  14. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    Motoport would not be my choice in cold/wet nasty conditions. yes you can do it, but outer layers including Armour would be soaked. not a pleasant thing to deal with.

    Mesh Kevlar cannot be beat for mild to hot conditions. just like a full Goretex suit cannot be beat for cold/wet nasty conditions.

    perhaps the answer is a full coverall rain suit over Motoport mesh kevlar. which gets back to using two suits ...
    #34
  15. levain

    levain STILL Jim Williams

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    Seems a Darien Light with zippers sewn onto the outside of your mesh kevlar to zip into the dariens liner zippers might not be a half bad mod:*sip*
    #35
  16. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    you could, not necessary... a BMW rainsuit is a one piece made specifically to fit over a riding suit. likely outer shell will be destroyed in any get off how ever minor.

    similar to Aerostich one piece roadcrafter in shape. except you've got one more layer to deal with. including dealing with heated suit wiring through another layer.

    if I've got to deal with another suit for wet/nasty over mesh. might as well use Aerostich one piece without bulk and ez wiring for heated gear.

    aerostich one piece packs down pretty small vs motoport mesh kevlar is very bulky to pack.

    note my comments are for folks who rides in both extremes. a Mesh Kevlar suit is just not good at dealing with just above freezing and lower nasties. just like a full Goretex suit is just not good at dealing with temps 80f to 100f+
    #36
  17. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    you could, not necessary... a BMW rainsuit is a one piece made specifically to fit over a riding suit. likely outer shell will be destroyed in any get off how ever minor.

    similar to Aerostich one piece roadcrafter in shape. except you've got one more layer to deal with. including dealing with heated suit wiring through another layer.

    if I've got to deal with another suit for wet/nasty over mesh. might as well use Aerostich one piece without bulk and ez wiring for heated gear.

    note my comments are for folks who rides in both extremes. a Mesh Kevlar suit is just not good at dealing with just above freezing and lower (20f) nasties. just like a full Goretex suit is just not good at dealing with temps 80f to 110f+

    here's an interesting article Motoport mesh kevlar vs Aerostich one piece
    http://www.webbikeworld.com/r3/motoport/
    #37
  18. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Been here awhile

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    I have an aerostich roadcrafter one piece, a motoport mesh Kevlar suit with liners, and a rukka armas set up, and a vanson suit.

    All good gear, but for me it breaks down like this - aerostich for commuting and short rides wearing normal clothes underneath

    Motoport mesh for touring when rain and cold are less likely (summer)

    Rukka when I know it's going to be cold and wet

    Vanson for track duty or nice weather canyon carving


    But if I could only have one suit, it would probably be one I don't have - that would be one of the higher end Klim offerings, like the badlands or rally - goretex pro shell ( warm and dry without liners) as well as adequate venting for when it gets hotter (the only real downside of the armas)
    #38
  19. bmac

    bmac Been here awhile

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    For the needs described the jacket chosen seems like a good fit. I have very similar requirements and went with the Badlands Pro and I am extremely happy with my decision. The jacket has a very broad temperature range and a well designed ventilation system. I have a ton of Klim stuff for snowmobiling and ATV'ing as well and they make very good products.

    I don't quite understand why other inmates feel the need to question the OP's requirement that the exterior of the jacket needs to be waterproof. This is the only way to go for me as well and I will never deal with waterproof liners that allow the exterior of the jacket to get soaking wet. They are a royal PITA and a seriously flawed design IMHO.

    .
    #39
  20. levain

    levain STILL Jim Williams

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    I'm not saying I'm doing the darien mod. It was just an idea to achieve the same thing as the Stadler suits is all. It's a way to incorporate an outer that lives with the inner. btw, some of us have used 1 piece rain suits and sold them for a reason.
    #40