A series of annoying events.. with pics.

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by crazydrummerdude, Sep 9, 2007.

  1. crazydrummerdude

    crazydrummerdude Wacky Bongo Boy

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Oddometer:
    7,653
    Location:
    El Segundo, CA
    As of January 3rd, 2008, I figured I'd patch up this thread a little bit, so here we go:

    This is a mechanical pursuit, cosmetics will come years (haha) later.

    I’ve been with the same lawncare business for 10 years, and owned it from April 2004 to August 2008. One of my lawncare customers is/was a great guy, real talkative, real smart.

    In 2004, I noticed these two strange motorcycle shapes in his garage, hidden behind some boxes. Turns out, BMW makes motorcycles.. and we worked out a deal on his wifes bike. It had been sitting since about 1981, with gas in the tank, covered in cat urine, and all kinds of little demons here and there. I don't have any before pics, because I'm an idiot, but here is how she looks after a bit of money and work:

    [​IMG]

    Here's where I rescued it from:

    [​IMG]

    ..and ever since the day I got the R75, I had been dreaming of the R90 still sitting in there (YES, there IS a motorcycle in this picture):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I kept mentioning to him that I REALLY wouldn't mind taking on another project.. but he was very reluctant, after all this was his personal bike. His excuses included that he couldn't be in the BMW clubs if he gets rid of it. But, he hadn't ridden the thing since ~1981, so I was a bit anxious.


    Well after 2.5 years of consistent reminding, on June 11, 2007 he came outside while I was cutting his grass. He asked if I was still interested in it.. I lit up.

    Sadly for me, he said that the guy who just remodeled his house said he'd buy it for $1200 cash.

    Ugh. That's a bit high of a price for the condition, I thought. I got to thinking about it, and I figured what-the-hell..

    I told him I'd give him $1000 that day. He said $1100, (which he needed as downpayment on his new BMW R1200RT)!). I told him I'd get it to him by next Monday.
    He said he wanted the bike gone, out of sight, so when the remodeler comes around, the bike wouldn’t be there any more.

    I decided to cut my work day short, so 2 hours later, and:

    [​IMG]

    Here are some detailed shots:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    ..and here's the loot:

    [​IMG]

    The bike, the bags... fairing lowers, 2 complete headlight assemblies, the stock gas tank (in great shape), new-in-box bulbs and filters and oil pan, extra mirror, extra turn signal housing, BMW crash bars, random old motorcycle literature, and some other odds-n-ends.

    I reunited the two bikes:

    [​IMG]

    The happy new owner:

    [​IMG]

    Its new home:

    [​IMG]

    A mini-tear-down begins:

    [​IMG]

    I started doing a minor tear-down/preparation. Whilst performing the last step of the day - an engine oil change – the old style rubber o-ring that goes between the filter and the 'cap' (which on newer filters is now built in) slipped out of my oily fingers and down into the block/pan. Well, what do I do? I was talking to my moms... boyfriend-guy-whatever, and he said he'd just go on with the project and start 'er right up. I personally didn't think it's a good idea.

    So, fearing what I might find, I dropped the pan and cleaned things out a bit.

    Back to the original post...

    After waiting months(?!) for a damn oil pan gasket to arrive, it showed up and it was time to put together my R90 and see if I could get it to turn over. It needs a full overhaul, but I am a broke(!) dumb kid and I have too many other projects going on right now.

    Well, I decided to actually follow the directions on the gasket sealer, and wait 24 hours after hand-tight assembly to actually torque it down.

    [​IMG]

    The Clymer said tighten it "securely." Well, what does that mean? I like actual numbers, so I guessed and made corrections to a torque wrench to get to a "secure" feel. Right as I approached it.. THWACK! There goes one of the bolts. ARGH!

    [​IMG]

    I freaking took all the 13 other bolts out, dropped the pan, but ah ha! Good luck, a lot of the bolt was still sticking out, and even better... I could unscrew it with my fingers. So, it all went back together.

    I filled it up with oil while I was installing the carbs.

    I hooked it up to a battery charger, and got the starter button to work finally. But, I head crackcrackcrackcrackcrack when I press it. Hmm.. did it seize up? I am pretty sure I could turn 'er over with the kick start. So, I try the kick start. It's not going ANYWHERE. Damn it. So, I pull the clutch and try the starter button. Now it's just bogging down instead of crackalacking. It's still not turning over. So, I pull the clutch and the kickstarter can swing down now, too.. but that doesn't turn it over, and there's little-to-no recoil. Damn. Transmission problems too. So, I figure I'll just bite the bullet and remove the transmission. A nut holding down the battery box is so stripped and rusted, I have to remove that mount with the box. I use my own judgement, and a little bit of the Clymer, on how to get the transmission off but the bolts securing the drive shaft to the output are like 12point(?) or something funky. I have 12point sockets/wrenches, but they just don't feel right on it. In the pic in the Clymer they look like typical 6point. I also noticed this crack. It doesn't actually turn right again (as the picture looks); it just runs along the "grain" for an inch. Damn.

    [​IMG]


    I was trying my tools on those output bolts, but they weren't budging.

    Well, it was getting late and I had reached a stopping point on my project, so I looked for something else to do for a bit.

    Ah ha! Why not make my own modified 27mm swingarm socket? Screw buying one.

    [​IMG]

    I turned this:

    [​IMG]

    Into this:

    [​IMG]

    I made a boo-boo on my original mental design, but I knurled it just for show.

    ..and it fits!

    [​IMG]


    Well, I'm sure there's more I've got to say, but I've got questions.

    What do you think about the transmission?
    What do you think about the bolts?

    Other advice/thoughts?
    #1
  2. RocketJ

    RocketJ Been here awhile

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
    674
    1. You must have missed the most important instruction on the tube. "Place unopened tube in a freezer in another zip code. Keep it there for at least 72 hours. When ready for use, remove from freezer and apply only the amount that can be dispensed in .0326 seconds.:D
    #2
  3. slipknot

    slipknot Been here awhile

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    Aug 10, 2006
    Oddometer:
    859
    A box end wrench with a cheater if necessary to remove the shaft bolts. Use some penetrating oil 20 minutes before attempting to loosen.

    The trans case is repairable but should be stripped and everything else inspected. A rebuild.

    Strip that frame and powdercoat it.

    Rebuild all.

    Write again in 12 months. A great story in the making.

    As for the budget, you are a totally without shame Republican? It will help.:rofl
    #3
  4. RocketJ

    RocketJ Been here awhile

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    2. For fateners such as those, a "nutdriver" turned by hand is sufficent. Or use a 1/4" drive rachet held in the palm of your hand. Most torque wrenches will provide far more leverage than needed.:thumb
    #4
  5. Stagehand

    Stagehand Imperfectionist

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    this is awesome :D

    great job, keep going!
    #5
  6. RocketJ

    RocketJ Been here awhile

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    3. With the clutch pulled in, if it is working, the kickstarter is no longer connected to the engine.
    Is it in gear?
    Did you ever get it to turn over?
    How long has it been sitting? etc...........
    4. The only thing that ring does is locate and secure the boot. No big deal in itself, but I would be curious to know how it got that way.
    #6
  7. datchew

    datchew Don't buy from Brad

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    Remember the Alamo!
    well, just for a future tip, when in doubt, use 1 finger. What do I mean?

    Well, if you look at box end wrenches, you'll notice that they get progressively longer as the size of the fastener they attach to gets bigger. (pay no mind to extended length or stubbies in this case)

    I can't help but think that there is a corollation between the lenth and the amount of torque they're meant to apply per bolt, per size, etc. If you dig up any machine design or engineering handbook, or hell, even a haynes manual, there's usually an average torque range for bolts and fasteners depending on their size. (don't mind the different grades either)

    So, if you accept that hand-waving argument, I think it's fair to say that putting a finger normal to the plane about which the wrench is turning, and go till you feel it stop without really trying too hard or hooking your finger and pulling it, etc. (use your common sense), usually, it'll stop turning at just the right amount of snugness (if snugness is a word).

    That's an easy way to stay out of trouble.
    #7
  8. opposedcyljunkie

    opposedcyljunkie Heavyweight Boxer

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    IIRC, oil pan bolt torque is around 8Nm, about half as tight as a spark plug.
    #8
  9. crazydrummerdude

    crazydrummerdude Wacky Bongo Boy

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    Alright.. I gotta go to school all day, but I'll give a quick update.

    Got the transmission off last night.
    Good news: I think it's mostly OK internally... and it has great splines.
    Bad news: I see a very crappy repair job by a previous owner on the kickstarter hole on the back cover, and the output shaft (or whatever it's called) is/was probaly 100 miles from flying right off. It was totally loose, spinning around gouging out the inside of the circular part of the case, and that is what caused the crack.

    The engine, with spark plugs and transmission removed will not turn over. Ugh. Oh well, life marches on..

    Pics to come.
    #9
  10. Mista Vern

    Mista Vern Knows all - tells some.

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    Location:
    McMinnville, Oregon


    :lol3:lol3:lol3
    #10
  11. d mc gee

    d mc gee Been here awhile

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    Upper Sandusky, OH
    Ummm.... You know that you can't save them all, right? You may have a decent parts bike on your hands. I hate to be a naysayer but, you may be better off cutting your losses early.
    #11
  12. RocketJ

    RocketJ Been here awhile

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    I was beginning to think the same thing. Especially if you don't have a good title, etc for it. If not, and it does not have some very special personal value, give it the last rights. Just my opinion.
    #12
  13. crazydrummerdude

    crazydrummerdude Wacky Bongo Boy

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    Psh. No way.
    #13
  14. crazydrummerdude

    crazydrummerdude Wacky Bongo Boy

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    Ok, with my first post, I was going on memory. I looked at the Clymer again and they even have a picture of a closed-end wrench on the obviously 12point bolts. I'm an idiot. So, I just went for it. I was pushing a little beyond my comfort level, but I got it disconnected.

    This is the furthest I've ever gone with one of my BMW's.

    [​IMG]

    Ignore the dirt/grease.. the splines are good.

    [​IMG]

    What cracked the back panel is the fact that the u-joint mount on the output shaft is totally wobbly. It ground away at the inside of the circle area. Shavings/etc can be seen.

    [​IMG]

    ..and caused this (to the swing arm where the driveshaft goes):
    [​IMG]

    Another view:

    [​IMG]

    We got to looking more closely, and we nocited the transmission case had been welded, and machined down around the kickstarter.

    [​IMG]

    So, next step is to order gaskets for the jugs and remove them to get to the real engine dirtywork. Shouldn't take too much, because it looked pretty good inside (although I only have this one crappy pic).


    [​IMG]

    To the naysayers... I'm not worried, and I'm not going to abandon because of any problems. I bought a 100% complete, numbers matching, bike with title with tons of extras for a good price. Unless it gets stolen, I am not parting with it.

    To everyone else: I'm taking donations. :lol3

    I think the previous owner forgot to mention a few things... but, honestly, I don't really care.. it could be a lot worse for a barn find. I will just learn a lot more with bringing-back-to-life this R90 than I did with my R75 (which is now my daily driver).
    #14
  15. crazydrummerdude

    crazydrummerdude Wacky Bongo Boy

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    Ok, so the way I understand it from reading various resources, the output shaft is pressed into [something] and the u-joint mount is secured onto it by one nut.

    It is this nut that has come loose, causing the u-joint to fling around and mess everything up.

    Since the u-joint is no longer secured to the output shaft of the transmission, the back wheel can roll regardless of whether the engine is stuck and/or the transmission is in gear or neutral. The resistance I felt when the bike was in gear was that of the u-joint grinding into the housing.

    Yes, there is a transmission problem (the output shaft/u-joint connection), but it is not as big of one as I thought.. I think. Ha.

    So, the diagnosis is: Stuck engine (which we (my brother and myself)) should be able to free, and a transmission/rear end that needs a going-over/rebuild (the transmission, I will probably take to a shop). This is what you'd expect from a barn find.

    I will go to the local dealer on Saturday to see if I can get some gaskets so I can work on freeing this engine.. I might even stop by the shop where I might get the transmission redone.
    #15
  16. Stagehand

    Stagehand Imperfectionist

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    take it to the cleaners, man. :clap


    Good work, and thanks for documenting it.

    hope its just a rusty jug!
    #16
  17. datchew

    datchew Don't buy from Brad

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    Remember the Alamo!
    YA! Go for it man. More power to you.

    I've heard that that marvel mystery oil can be poured down into the cylinders and after letting it soak for awhile, can do great things for loosening up a siezed engine.
    #17
  18. OConnor

    OConnor Bad juju

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    Midwest
    PB Blaster and let it sit for a week.
    #18
  19. Middleweightboxer

    Middleweightboxer Middleweightboxer

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    A lot of tractor guys use olive oil to break down stuck pistons on the old tractors. I had a R90 that I tried everything on. After weeks of filling the jug with different oils and solvents I had no luck freeing the pistons.

    I pulled the heads and used a steering wheel puller bolted to the two head bolts and pressed against the piston tops. The right piston/jug came loose. The left piston was almost entirely stuck in place from all the years of water and condensation running down the jug and gluing the piston in place. We had to drill two holes in the piston and cut the piston skirt with a hacksaw blade and bust it up with a big hammer and chisel.

    I hope you luck out with just rusty rings.
    #19
  20. crazydrummerdude

    crazydrummerdude Wacky Bongo Boy

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    :eek1
    #20