About This "Bikes" Section

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by JETalmage, Jan 13, 2018 at 11:03 AM.

  1. JETalmage

    JETalmage Been here awhile

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    Unsurprisingly, I can't find anywhere to post about this forum itself. But the existence of a section called "Bikes" (thereby suggesting it should be organized according to...let's see...bikes?), I'll post it here.

    The "690 Wunderfest...", now a 1560-page "topic," is just one example of how stupidly this entire forum site is "organized." I mean, really! It is past the point of absurdity trying to peruse most any thread topic.

    Don't try to defend it on the basis of "impossibility" of properly organizing such a "vast and varied" subject as motorcycles. Forums are successfully and sensibly organized on subjects ranging from software to recipes to mathematics to military parts to whatever.

    For example: I dare say there are far, far, more users of Adobe Illustrator software than KTM 690 owners. And yet the decades-old Adobe Illustrator User Forum is (like most any software forum) cleanly navigable and meaningfully searchable by topic. That's simply because it is sensibly organized:

    The Level 1 Topic is fixed: Adobe Illustrator (a specific product).
    The Level 2 Threads are user-created: Discussions directly pertaining to Adobe Illustrator.
    The Level 3 Posts are individual user comments which make up the L2 discussions.​

    Participation in such sites tends toward self-organization because it's natural and logically consistent.

    Does anyone not get it that root-level (L1) Topics of a section called "Bikes" which are not user-editable should be bike-specific, not all lumped together under over-generalized and metaphor-breaking titles like "Thumpers" and "cutsey" admin commentary tripe like "Ridiculous streetbikes with 6 CPUs and too much HP"?

    Ridiculous? You wanna talk about ridiculous? This place is ridiculous. It's just anarchy. Consider:

    We've got two idiotically-titled Subtopics ("Ridiculous streetbikes...." and "Crazy Awesome...") listed under a single "Orange Crush" root level. Thus, you have used up (wasted) an entire level in the hierarchy with only two fixed entries. On the face of it, that's a dead giveaway of an unnecessary level. You've used up two levels with fixed values, thereby robbing one of two levels which should be user-defined (Threads and Posts). So what should be Threads and Posts get thrown into the same bottom level grab bag.

    But even worse, in doing so, you've also already committed one of the most egregious errors in organization of information: Near the root level, you've already jumped logical metaphors.

    Information navigation needs to be a hierarchy. It "drills down" from general to specific. Each hierarchal level is a subset of its parent level.

    Mixing metaphors causes the "drilldown" to effectively ask illogical questions like, "Do you walk to work or carry your lunch?" or "Is the Sun red or is it in the Milky Way"?

    The example fixed L1 root is obviously based on brand (which should simply be titled "KTMs"; please stop with the not-even-funny "clever" commentary). But it is then immediately subdivided into only two groups which are not subsets of brand, but are subsets of genre.

    So the effective question is: Is your 690 a KTM (Orange Crush) or is it a four-stroke single (Thumper) or is it street legal, endowed with ABS or TC, and have "too much HP"?

    In this case, we've got a single L1 Topic with a too-general, all-brands inclusive, cutesy-name (Thumpers, which is neither a subset of brand nor of usage genre, but of engine type) into which both of what should be L2 Threads and L3 Posts get tossed into the same disorganized heap, as users try to create the needed, but missing, organizational consistency. That is, by definition, allowing the inmates to run the asylum. But it's not the inmates' fault; it's the asylum's.

    Any and all comments having anything at all to do with a KTM 690 get thrown randomly into the same absurd hodge-podge. Visitors, inevitably becoming overwhelmed with the resulting disorganized mess in a single Thread which is playing the part of what should be an L1 Topic, start what should be L3 Posts as additional L2 Threads on the same subject, thereby compounding the root problem!

    Yeah, I know what you're going to say. "This forum is a labor of love."

    So what? I'm working on a book on the subject of isometric drawing. It's also largely a labor of love. That doesn't mean I don't want to do it right.

    "We like the random disorganization. Anarchy is fun!"

    Yeah? Tell that to the guy looking for information about the goofy little brake light switch "pea" that chronically falls out. Tell it to the actual ADV rider broken down in South America and in need of some specific information.

    So meanwhile, there's soon to be a new KTM which, despite the redundancy of KTM Topics, fits nowhere here. The 790 is a twin, so not a "thumper." It's an 800, so it doesn't belong in "Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)" and it's not a "Ridiculous streetbike...with too much HP."

    Count 'em. That's three fixed "Topics," two of which are KTM-specific, and none of which fit what will undoubtedly become one of the most popular KTMs ever, and one most certainly apropos to a site called "ADV Rider." And this isn't the first time that this site has effectively pre-orphaned new bikes of high interest to its target readership.

    That's the problem of this whole forum: It's as if the "organizers" don't get the differences between Forum, Subject, Topics, Threads, and Posts.

    So which is it going to be? Is the hierarchy to be based on bike brand, or on bike genre? Pick one, apply a little forethought, and stick to it. (For simple logic reasons, I strongly suggest the former. Otherwise, you need to provide a user interface which allows the user to perform drilldowns by means of many-to-many database relationships.)

    Again; all the specifics above constitute just one example. Does anyone not see the problem here?

    PUH-LEASE! Enough! Fix this absurdly disorganized forum. It's not rocket science.

    JET
    #1
  2. Bultaco206

    Bultaco206 Back-to-back motos suck

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    I'm trying to understand what are you upset about. And I can't.
    #2
    arbr0972, YJake, buzzword and 16 others like this.
  3. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    I can fit the entire forum in a tiny phone. Not seeing the problem.

    I kinda glazed over when he mentioned acrobats in adobe huts or some such things?
    #3
  4. davesupreme

    davesupreme grand poobah

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    i kinda like ANARCHY......

    [​IMG]
    #4
  5. CDN Rick

    CDN Rick Canoodia Eh?

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    So you're the guy Baldy was talking about.... I see.

    I gave up reading your rant after the adobe thing.....

    Just post your question already. We don't bite. (Except I think @kyns)
    And we will gladly answer it for you..


    Otherwise PUH-LEASE!! learn how to use the search function.
    Its not rocket science!!

    This forum is great the way it is.
    #5
    rd400racer, malignity, ACR and 5 others like this.
  6. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    Was someone stranded to the point of or beyond near death whilst in a go round the globe (IAGRTG) by a failed brake light switch?

    Fuggin KTMz. Junko!
    #6
  7. brgsprint

    brgsprint Been here awhile

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    Yeah. This place sucks.
    #7
  8. davesupreme

    davesupreme grand poobah

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    sorry, boss, but.... i work w/the REAL layer 1..... ALL DAY !!.... all that layer 4-7 stuff, who cares anyways???? just figure it out...... there's millions of ways to figure it out, so WHO CARES???..... dirtbikes ain't ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITTANICA .... maybe you know what i'm talking about.... if not ??? :jive
    #8
  9. CDN Rick

    CDN Rick Canoodia Eh?

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    So I'd like to have a second go at replying to this. I actually took the time to read your whole post. (Which i believe is an L3 entry by your count)

    My new response is as follows:

    I do sincerely hope you get banned for this. Waste of freakin time. Especially during Dakar season. I wouldn't have been near as annoyed if you had posted this in February.
    #9
  10. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    image.jpeg
    #10
  11. Ned1

    Ned1 Loose lips sink ships

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    OP, your post is about as much as I write here in an entire year. You're "into it", so talk to the owners and put some rubber on the road towards your vision with the owners. I've seen your very well thought and presented ideas here- you're not the typical customer in my observation based opinion.

    Most of us, at least from what I've seen from 12yrs of being here (I'm not a basement type btw), don't worry about it and go about our business here not knowing any better or caring to the same degree you do. We're the knuckle draggers who will eat whatever dogfood you put out for us :woof:

    PS... the motorcycle demographic ain't the software power user demographic.
    #11
  12. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer

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    I'm presently trapped in a store in DC on the husband couch commenting on Grreatwife's sartorial choices. So, in full time kill mode, I read that - all of it. Thought WTF it must be me.

    Then I read it again to see if my brain just vapor locked. But I still don't have a clue what the OP is on about. Can somebody help a brother out and translate that into Thumperese?
    #12
  13. Bultaco206

    Bultaco206 Back-to-back motos suck

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    Just go to dinner when you're finished. This will be here tomorrow.
    #13
  14. davesupreme

    davesupreme grand poobah

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    the guy is tryin' to be a geek and thinks that if all this is separated/categorizzed more iffenshuntially using some other dorky-azzed software so that he'll be able to search these mighty tomes for all the factzz that reside within the hallowed walls of ADVRider..... HAHAHAHA ..... facts in ADVRider..... HAHAHAHA..... factzz on a dirtbike forum..... HAHAHAHAHA........maybe @kyns can straighten him out w/some factzzzz.....
    #14
    CDN Rick, wiswoodsguy, Navin and 3 others like this.
  15. Eatmore Mudd

    Eatmore Mudd Mischief on wheels.

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    Not sure but think it might be something about hyper dimensional rocket surgery.
    #15
  16. Ned1

    Ned1 Loose lips sink ships

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    OP dude is a thinker. I like that... a lot. But turning the tide here to a level of librarian-grade classification system will take the notion of a group campfire, the odd electronic fistfight and general cross mingling of knowledge away. Frankly, I like seeing the crybabies spout off when they get some data-driven advice from experienced people who share their knowledge, tongue-in-cheek as it may be. I like seeing people learn from different standpoints. Segregate this place any further and I know my infrequent posting will turn to non-existent... which is no big deal as I don't put in much as it is.

    Anyone seen a missile flying over Hawaii? Thought it mighta been that Finnish @$$hat on a WRrrrr with wings...
    #16
  17. CDN Rick

    CDN Rick Canoodia Eh?

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    Bahaha!!!! @kyns has gotta see this!!!!!
    #17
    Navin and Bultaco206 like this.
  18. Bultaco206

    Bultaco206 Back-to-back motos suck

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    :photog
    #18
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  19. Mobiker

    Mobiker Long timer

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    I wasn't confused until I tried to read this. Now I don't care. :muutt

    This is the best motorcycle forum on the web. By far. :nod
    #19
  20. Bitingdog

    Bitingdog That's not my dog

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    Here's the simple version: waaaaa waaaaa waaaa waaaaa waaaaa waaaaa
    #20