Airbag Jacket any good? ( Hit Air Safermoto jacket & vest)

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by mikeyoda, Dec 20, 2009.

  1. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to Asphalt!

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2004
    Oddometer:
    7,659
    Location:
    Kalifornia
    Valentino Rossi is testing and advanced Dainese system that uses an accelerometer stashed in the hump of his leathers.

    Valentino Rossi and Jorge Lorenzo to test the D-air® Racing system in Donington
    Valentino will use the Dainese airbag for the first time at the Grand Prix race in Donington: Jorge will confirm the protective system’s validity

    Years of dedicated airbag research and development bring an important result to Donington this weekend, where Dainese racers will use the D-air® Racing system in heavyweight class competition.

    After the general fitting tests were completed, Valentino Rossi also decided to wear the suit with a D-air® in Donington Park. The champ from Tavullia has been following the development of the project closely for some time now, and in the last year has worked constantly with the D-Tec® (Dainese Technology Center) technicians to acquire the data required for its perfection.

    Jorge Lorenzo was the first Moto GP Dainese racer that used the suit with the D-air® Racing system at last week’s Grand Prix race on the Sachsenring after taking an ugly spill in Laguna Seca: “I’m very proud to participate in the D-air® Racing system development project,” he said. “I believe this to be an extremely important innovation. After my falls in Laguna Seca, I no longer had any doubt that it was time to start wearing this new suit, which certainly offers more safety than the standard suit. Dainese has taken big steps forward in its perfection of the system, and we racers can make a further contribution in the creation of the prototype: we can’t stop now! Like any innovation, it takes a little time to get used to wearing the new suit, but I feel much safer with the system on and that’s the most important thing. I’d like to thank the entire Dainese team for all the precious work they’ve done to make motorcycle riding safer.”


    Source: http://www.dainese.com/us_en/news/Valentino_Rossi_and_Jorge_Lorenzo_to_test_the_D-air_Racing_system_during_competition




    Video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcZ9egblcIE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWnYC3wSWgE&feature=related
    #41
  2. spaceharrier

    spaceharrier Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Oddometer:
    97
    Location:
    NorCal
    I've been wondering about this. Most obvious issue with the tether is remembering to hook it up. Second is that if you don't separate from the bike, your airbag won't inflate, though I don't know how often that's actually occur or not.

    For the electronic version there seem to be plenty of gyros and accelerometers that could fit into a small crash sensor package. You'd need to include some logic regarding what accelerations and orientations counted as crash situations. If you've lowsided the bag should inflate, but not if you're scraping knee or peg as part of a turn. Guessing that logic would take a while to get right cutting the false negatives and positives and encoding sensor inputs into a model of controlled vs. crash situations. That alone would be very expensive in terms of development time and product liability issues. You'd also need a solenoid or something to actually trigger inflation of the bag, and the whole shooting match would need power.

    Which is probably why it's taken Dainese so very long to release a version triggered by an electronics package. Seems like it still might be a while before that makes it into the commodity price range.

    And actually, I have a suspicion that the tether covers a lot of typical crash situations, as long as you remember to hook it up. Of course, that hypothesis should be tested :)
    #42
  3. Waco

    Waco Renegade Sickle Hound

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Oddometer:
    14,973
    Location:
    Waco, Texas
    I think you need the tether and the accelerometer. If you T-bone a car, your body is going to take a hard hit before the tether gets pulled. If you just lay the bike down, the accelerometer probably won't trigger. The tether makes me think my electric vest, and how I always forget to unplug it. Maybe it could be like a keyless remote and sense that your body is more than x-number of mm from the gas tank while the bike is moving.
    #43
  4. spaceharrier

    spaceharrier Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Oddometer:
    97
    Location:
    NorCal
    Yeah, part of that logic package. RFID or Bluetooth (for example) so you know if you're near the bike, and perhaps if it's moving, you're moving but you don't agree on direction.

    A lowside ought to manifest as the bike going downward whilst the rider and bike are at a severe lean angle. You'd need to sort out the difference between that and coming over a dip into a turn, but it all seems doable with enough time to figure it out.

    Having an electronics package would also be nice for logging what actually happened in crashes. A bit ghoulish perhaps, but it would be good to have real data about what forces are visited on body and bike all the way through a crash.

    Anyway, we're probably getting a bit geekish here. I still reckon the current airbag jackets likely offer a real safety benefit, and I'd still like to see a bunch of testing. I think that a full electronics package could offer benefits beyond a mechanical tether, but that the tether is still very useful.
    #44
  5. PJungnitsch

    PJungnitsch Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2006
    Oddometer:
    368
    Location:
    Edmonton, Alberta
    I just about did yesterday, wanted to go for a ride but cold and wet and with no heated vest in I took the car.

    BAM! End of the trip, coming home at dusk in the rain hit a deer, the third one in a year. The second one was with the work truck but the first one totaled my V-strom and was the reason I looked at this gear in the first place. Laying in the hospital with a crushed chest makes you very contemplative.

    Now that more of this gear is around there is for sure going to be some accident reports filtering in.

    I suspect these tether types are not going to help in all cases but will be a huge help in a lot. The nice part of the vests is they go overtop all your regular armor.
    #45
  6. Waco

    Waco Renegade Sickle Hound

    Joined:
    May 16, 2002
    Oddometer:
    14,973
    Location:
    Waco, Texas
    I'm an engineer, I'm supposed to be geekish. :shog
    #46
  7. spaceharrier

    spaceharrier Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Oddometer:
    97
    Location:
    NorCal
    I only play one on TV.
    #47
  8. SaferMoto

    SaferMoto Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Oddometer:
    269
    Location:
    Reno Nevada
    There is some testing data that the factory did 2 years ago. It's basic stuff, G force reduction, etc.
    Info is here:
    http://safermoto.com/testing/

    Here is a high speed camera test deployment (you can see the millisecond counter in the upper right if you watch in HD):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_jvY-ySnFg

    The concern about landing on the Co2 cartridge is certainly valid, I have wondered (worried) about this myself. Personally I feel that if you land on the keybox with enough force to cause injury, you are going to continue to roll and in which case I would want the protection of the airbag system. We have had no reports of injury due to landing on the Co2 mechanism (though there's not enough data yet.)

    Spaceharrier, I'm not sure I understand your question about landing on the bag.

    Regarding the tether/vs. technology question, cost is a huge concern. If these vests cost $3000 would anyone buy one (I know I wouldn't). Also, I'm still not convinced that I want a computer deciding if I had crashed or not. The tether system is elegantly simple. Yes, if you aren't separated from the bike, it won't deploy but I have to think that it is quite rare to crash and stay on the bike.

    Almost every crash report we have gotten, the rider has commented on how secure he felt that his neck was supported. AFM racer Alan Cunningham crashed last year at Infineon and landed on his head while wearing one of our vests and is convinced that, had he not been wearing it, he would been in the hospital. Here is a picture of the incident:
    [​IMG]

    I will be the first to admit that an airbag vest (like any piece of safety gear) will not help in every accident but I am totally convinced that they to do help mitigate the risk.
    #48
  9. HaChayalBoded

    HaChayalBoded Brooklyn Bored

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2006
    Oddometer:
    7,946
    Location:
    BRC \ NYC
    #49
  10. SaferMoto

    SaferMoto Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Oddometer:
    269
    Location:
    Reno Nevada
    The keybox upgrade is $30, shipping via priority mail is $5.
    Not really a "fix", it is an upgrade. I think the cost/benefit makes it an easy choice. You can't get much armor for $30.
    By the way, we make about $3 on each of these.
    #50
  11. Germax

    Germax ...zzzzZZZZ

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Oddometer:
    22
    Location:
    Toronto
    Intrigued by this thread I decided to order YS vest and John has been most helpful with resolving my fitting and shipping to Canada questions.
    I hope to never test it but if I do I hope it works as well as SaferMoto customer service. Thanks John!
    #51
  12. John Smallberries

    John Smallberries Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,340
    Location:
    Northville, Michigan
    I deployed my Hit-Air jacket (a new one with the 250 ms keybox) two weekends ago riding my 1200GS along a power line road in northern lower Michigan. My son was riding behind me on his Honda CRF-230. I was pretending my 500-lb beast was really a dirt bike at heart!

    I hit a deep patch of sand going just a few miles per hour (a few mph too slow, I expect) and I dumped the bike. It was a slow fall, so I more stepped-off the bike, rather than "flew off". The cord pulled and the bag inflated as expected.

    In this soft sand, I didn't need it's protection - but it gave me a very comforting feeling. I disconnected the tether and walked over to my son. The bags stayed inflated for a few minutes - enough time for him to whack/punch me many times as hard as he could to test the protection. I felt he could have smacked me at full force with a 2x4 in the back or chest and I would have been fine.

    Dirt riding, where you expect to drop multiple times, is not the right environment for this jacket. Having said that, it is exactly the protection I want if, God forbid, I find myself sliding on the pavement.

    For you lurkers or hand-wringers - quit worrying about the inflation time, the bottle on your chest, what if I forget...: just buy one. Those are minor issues compared to the benefit of that 2" air cushion around your vitals.

    Also - I did my first all-day ride with my tether connection sensor and it worked great. You can build your own for a few bucks.

    You won't regret it.
    #52
  13. Houngan

    Houngan Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Oddometer:
    57
    I like the idea of the vest, and I like the idea of having an easy-on easy-off hi-viz piece of serious armor. My question is this: What are you wearing under the vest? I would think that owning one of these with upgraded back and chest protection plus something lighter underneath with shoulders and elbows would give you best of both worlds, heavy protection on the bike, and comfort off the bike (plus not wearing hi-viz all night) with the vest stowed.

    So what simple jackets have folks found to be good fits with the airbag vest? (And I'm referring to the full YS vest, not the MLV, so I can have good back protection.)

    H.
    #53
  14. TallRob

    TallRob Long timer

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,395
    Location:
    Agoura Hills ,Ca
    I look to add one of their XL air vests to my Motoport jacket. Thats got a ton of armor in it.
    #54
  15. TallRob

    TallRob Long timer

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,395
    Location:
    Agoura Hills ,Ca
    hey Safer, I have a question about some of the racer photos on the website. There is one photo with two guys in leathers at some racetrack. They both have short vests on but when I look at your product range. I dont see those vests. Whats the deal? [​IMG]
    #55
  16. Germax

    Germax ...zzzzZZZZ

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Oddometer:
    22
    Location:
    Toronto
    Btw after I ordered and paid I mentioned ADV rider and I was offered 30$ discount immediately. If you are getting this make sure to mention this website. They like us for some strange reason :)
    #56
  17. John Smallberries

    John Smallberries Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,340
    Location:
    Northville, Michigan
    This has become an intriguing concept for me, but I think I'm beginning to understand. Part of the issue is simple market awareness that (hopefully) will grow with time. Another major part is more complex: the psychology of motorcycle safety and individual choice.

    I started the JoMamma thread "Given the choice, Americans don't wear helmets: WTF?" Reading the responses, I got a better insight to the psychology of motorcycle safety and personal choice. I think many logical people see motorcycle safety as an oxymoron, of sorts. If you are REALLY worried about safety, you wouldn't ride at all. (You would drive a 2010 Taurus wearing helmets.) So, once you have accepted that, where do you set your personal line.

    What I see driving back/forth between states with/without helmet laws is that American riders are very likely to choose to not wear a helmet at all. I don't think any degree of marketing savvy will get them to choose an airbag jacket.

    I am glad John at Safer-Moto is still pushing to make the technology better, while still affordable. I can only hope more people finally catch on and riding becomes safer for all of us and our insurance rates get better!
    #57
  18. sky11

    sky11 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Oddometer:
    15
    not really good it is !
    #58
  19. SaferMoto

    SaferMoto Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Oddometer:
    269
    Location:
    Reno Nevada
    And instead of taking the refund he gave the $30 to the Peter Lenz fund at http://www.peterlenz.org
    :clap
    Good stuff!
    #59
  20. SaferMoto

    SaferMoto Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Oddometer:
    269
    Location:
    Reno Nevada
    Rob, those guys are just big guys. They're wearing the smaller size MLV.
    There are two sizes, one that goes from M to XL and one that goes from XL to XXXL and can accommodate a 54" waist.
    #60